I was recently made aware of a disgusting revival of some of the same Raymondiod fallacies that has been used against trans people since the 1970s. This time the TS Separatist, Dana Lane Taylor has, in a stunning display sycophantic credulity, hopped onto the Raymondism bandwagon saying:
The sooner the transgender community acknowledges this issue, the better…
As stated repeatedly in this communication, we abhor irrational discrimination against transgender and transsexual people. However, we equally abhor the lack of concern for females that exists in the legislation promulgated by GLBT activists to remedy irrational discrimination against transgender and transsexual people.
(Remember the above false dichotomy.)
Dana Lane Taylor is happy about the following letter submitted to the United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Women:
Females require sex-segregated facilities for a number of reasons, chief among them the documented frequency of male sexual violence against females and the uniquely female consequence of unwanted impregnation resulting from this relatively common form of violence. [xxi] …
We do not single out individual males as predatory, nor do we think any particular male is more likely to harm females. Further, we do not believe that transgender or transsexual women are any more likely to harm females. [xxii]
xxi: Please see “Men in Women’s Restrooms,” http://ts-is-liberation.org/Men+in+womens+restrooms, an article cataloguing the presence of males in female-only space on the TS-IS Liberation website maintained by transsexual activist Dana Lane Taylor. Our sincere thanks to Ms. Taylor for compiling this information.
xxii: Throughout this communication, we refer to “transgender” and “transsexual.” These terms do not have definitions in any of the legislation cited in this communication. However, the definition of “gender identity” intends to capture both “transgender” and “transsexual.” For perspective on these terms, we refer you to http://ts-si.org, an excellent resource website operated by Sharon Gaughan and Lisa Jain Thompson. Please also see S. Gaughan, “What About Non-op Transsexuals? A No-op Notion,” http://ts-si.org/content/view/1409/995/, 2006.
Yes, apparently TS Separatism has merged with anti-trans Feminism to mutate into the very intellectual barbarism that is the stock in trade of hucksters like Janice Raymond. The esteemed authors of the above letter, Cathy Brennan and Elizabeth Hungerford, have built this logical house of cards upon the following premise:
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Men present a significant risk to women;
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Transgender women are men;
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Ergo, transgender women should be barred from using the restroom.
Even this bit of BS was apparently had for them to swallow, because in the next paragraph they write, “We do not single out individual males as predatory, nor do we think any particular male is more likely to harm females. Further, we do not believe that transgender or transsexual women are any more likely to harm females.” However, the link they cite as being their supportive evidence goes to a TS Separatist site which does, in fact, make the claim that transgender women pose an assault risk to cisgender women:
This cited page goes on to give a few examples of men who – in various crossdressed states – assaulted women:
The Transgender Community wants to stay in denial about the dangers of men using women’s private spaces. On this page, I am pointing to articles that show men should not be allowed in women’s private spaces. There is also a section on Transgender offenders. I see Transgender, Inc. deny the existence of transgender individuals (cross-dressers and transvestites) committing crimes against women in their private spaces.
Women born transsexual are NOT men. The public needs to know the differences between those with transsexual histories, crossdresser, transvestite and gender variants.
This bit of Fox News intellectualism should be roundly denounced by all. Their argument is, in essence, that if a community is proven to have any sick fucks associated with it, then the entire population must be viewed as potential risk.
Never mind that this is the exact logic anti-Muslim idiots, racists asshats and genocidal thugs have use to prop up their crusades. If they can appropriate the barbarous and defamatory propaganda engine used in propping up everything from segregation to mass murder, apparently these TS Separatists and Radical Feminists are willing to put themselves into the same intellectual bed with the worst humanity has to offer.
The problem with this logic is that it can be turned on anyone. After doing some research of my own, I found another potential predator that needs to be barred from women’s restrooms:
You see… standing firm on the same logical ground of Dana Lane Taylor, Cathy Brennan and Elizabeth Hungerford, one can only conclude that apparently women cannot be trusted in the women’s restrooms.
After seeing this evidence, how could any women feel safe going into a women’s restroom knowing that women might be in there… waiting?!?
Anyone can use this fallacious argument against any group! SHAME ON THEM!
Their intellectually dishonest and phobic rhetoric is absolutely repugnant and puts them in bed with other disgusting phobic assholes like Dr. Ruth Jacobs:
Some of you might remember Ruth Jacobs from her public smack-down in DC. She tried to argue that gay men had a high HIV infection rate and therefore should not be allowed to marry. Watching her argument get pulled apart would be almost painful if it were not for the fact that the good doctor seems to be oblivious to her own ineptitude. Check it out:
Ruth is back. Now she’s blasting out crazy-looking emails to people warning that if transgender people are allowed to work, little girls will be raped:
First of all, as a website designer, this piece of junk makes my eyes hurt. It screams, “I’M NOT A PROFESSIONAL! Don’t listen to me! I might be A RAVING LUNATIC!“
Second of all, the substance of the argument is pure fiction… as in, it’s all a LIE.
Some might think after reading Ruth’s vapid remarks, “Wow! From the context, it sounds like those transgender people are already raping little girls.” However, if you are an intelligent person, you might think, “Wait, what? Did she actually come out and say that a child was raped by a transgender person?” If you asked yourself the second, please give yourself a gold star because, you use critical thinking!
Ruth lies. The Doctor is a lying liar who’s lying! Worse, she’s pimping a tragic case of child rape.
The child rape case Ruth is pimping involves no transgender people at all. The poor little girl was raped by a NON-transgender, heterosexual man.
Ruth, I’d like to say that I think your name is fitting since I can’t spell “Ruthless” without you. I don’t know that I’ve ever met someone who could read about the rape of a little girl and then pimp her out like you did. I’ll think of you the next time I read about the death of another transgender person. Liars like you give people the fiction-based fuel they need to drive their hate far enough to actually kill.
What kind of mind gladly takes up the bloody mantle of this type of intellectual hucksterism? What sort of minds gleefully pour sycophantic adulations upon each other in such a bizarre public display of gross intellectual turpitude as this? Again, SHAME on them!
If Cathy Brennan and Elizabeth Hungerford are the dealers of this incredulity, Dana Lane Taylor is the pusher. Dana Lane Taylor’s propaganda against transgender women puts her in the same moral boat as Dr. Ruth Jacobs, the KKK and those who would seek to bar Muslims from holding office. These bigots all use the same “some part of your population did something bad, therefore all of that population is a risk and should have their 14th amendment rights trampled upon” propaganda. Dana Lane Taylor, Cathy Brennan and Elizabeth Hungerford are trading in the same disgusting propaganda that the worst right-wing offenders use in their effort to ensure that 14th amendment rights are never shared by all American citizens.
If there was ever any question about the bigoted roots of TS Separatism, these recent posts should put that debate to rest. Only the most obtuse mind will not recognize that the very propaganda traded among the bigoted groups I’ve named is the selfsame propaganda used by Dana Lane Taylor, Cathy Brennan and Elizabeth Hungerford. SHAME ON THEM!
As trans women continue to my mauled by our culture’s fear-fueled system of discrimination, I think it is entirely appropriate for more rational minds to correctly point to people like Dana Taylor, Cathy Brennan and Elizabeth Hungerford as being co-architects of that hateful system.
cross-posted from Ehipassiko
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I’m a transman and I’ve read several articles on trans problems and made friends with trans people so I can better understand what me and other trans people go through. On of the things that I felt was out of line was fear of transwomen, you know what they are? Women just like everyone else, height isn’t going to change that. As for the men crossdressing, I think it was just a weird fetish they had or they wanted to invade women’s privacy. Many transpeople are misunderstood I remember reading an article about how we are seen as people who try to trick people into having sex with us because they think we have always been male of female. I find it comical considering I haven’t heard of a real trans person doing that. It sounds as stupid as it is to think many people would do that.
Until lesbians get to accept that their sexual activity exposes them to vaginal estrogen and brings on all sorts of paranois and eventual dementias they will try to defend their own perverted lifestyles by projecting their self hate onto transsexuals and esepcially onto the TGs who don’t have the natural femaleness of he true transsexual.
See, this is why I don’t understand why wadfemz pillory trans dykes, when there are actually some pretty valid people to despise.
PS: Easiest method of ensuring a lesbian utopia? Spironolactone.
If male “trans women” recognize themselves as people in male bodies who “transitioned” via surgery, hormones or simply changing the way you dress, why do you find it so hard to understand that women SEE YOU as male-bodied people, too? It’s not like your male body becomes invisible to us the minute you decide to “transition”! Especially if you’re 6’4″ and weigh 250-lbs, yes your presence WILL be frightening/threatening to average-sized women/girls in the ladies room. Stranger-danger, rape, beatings, sex-based murder is women’s REALITY. Male criminals cross-dressing in order to sneak into women-only spaces is women’s reality. It happens all the time. We’re not stupid. We read the news. We talk to each other. We share our stories, our experiences. We know how many dangerous perverts there are in the world. YOU may see yourself as harmless; we do not. We see you as MALE and all males are potential rapists to us — we’d be crazy to NOT see a strange male in our restrooms, dressing rooms, showers, locker rooms, saunas, etc. as dangerous! That is our reality. Even if you have no compassion for our reality, you have no right to force yourselves on us. Lobby for “trans” facilities — not to invade women’s facilities.
derp, derp, derp…..derp, derp
That’s right. Make fun of women being assaulted or terrified when most vulnerable. Every time one of you ridicules women’s reality, you tip your hand: males matter, females do not. Sexist much?
Hi Rose! My name is Maddy and I do fully appreciate all your concerns, one of the first things I’ve learned as a trans woman is FEAR. Fear of men, or a certain kind of man, and the realization that most women, trans or cis, deal with all of the time. This is a terrible truth that most men do not, or will not recognize. Having said that, I always use the women’s room now, despite being 6 feet tall (without heels!), have never had any issues, because A.) I am a woman, and B.) all i want to do is go the bathroom and perhaps check my hair and makeup, then i leave. Like every other woman. I don’t believe “trans facilities” is an option either, but I don’t know what the answer is…..thanks for listening, just wanted to share my thoughts and let you know that some us trans girls know exactly what you’re talking about and appreciate where you’re coming from on this.
ciswoman desperately trying to police womyn’s bodies and preserve her target-rich environment says what?
The issue they have is if they can tell that someone is trans, then that person is somehow supposedly more dangerous than let’s say a cisgender lesbian in the ladies room. I also have to wonder, how many incidents can be cited in which a “man” dressed in women’s clothing went to a ladies room and attacked a woman. How many of those “men” were trans women? The issue of restroom use by trans women seem blown out of proportion.
I’m still conflicted though about this point which I agree is valid “Females require sex-segregated facilities for a number of reasons, chief among them the documented frequency of male sexual violence against females and the uniquely female consequence of unwanted impregnation resulting from this relatively common form of violence.”
What is not valid is that trans women somehow totally ruin it.
Never had an issue with bathrooms I could not solve with a middle finger. If you ASSERT your right to be somewhere, most people will just accept it. If they do not, then it pays to know some self-defense technique. If the Law gets involved, invoke your right to counsel. You may not beat the ride, but you can beat the rap. STAND up for yourself!
Your hatred and disrespect for women is noted.
You’re the one working towards killing dykes, which you’ve been allowed to do by your patriarchal masters so long as you never admit they are womyn, you cissexually-constructed colonist.
Ah Dana. Let’s have a shout out from the wormfoodhag Mary Daly, who tells you: “It is also noted that among this faction there are some who appear to be eunuchs. One is carrying a placard which reads: “I am a lesbian-feminist male-to-female transsexual. Take me in.” As they begin to file off the platform two Harpies swoop down into their midst, causing them to stumble and stagger in all directions.” The Harpies pause, because the Brennan has given you covetted faab status, and they lift you unto the sacred hag coven… Did you REALLY expect you would be special? Fool.
To be fair, she’s starting to get over it. And “welcome back sister,” will create more growth than “I told you so.”
This Hate filled puke really makes me sick, if it were turned on them, it would be a different story – "poor me" syndrome – bigots are like that.
Just accept the truth that they are part of our community.. They have been the right to get marriage..And they have the right to get sex change …
Have you noticed how Men aren’t screaming and crying about FtM transsexuals using their bathrooms? Could it be that guy’s just don’t care who’s peeing beside them? *Gasp* Oh My! Could it be that they see a bathroom as a place to do their ‘business’ and not some social club that needs to be defended from women?
hmmmm……
That’s a very sexist stereotype.
I rarely see women socializing in the restroom. I was kinda shocked to see some had actual furniture!
You had no business being in there in the first place.
Her being a womon, she sure did. Stop trying to enforce your total colonization of womonhood in this space.
Men do object to FTMs using men’s bathrooms if they know the person is FTM.
PS I as a transgender woman have tried to enter a men’s room and been directed to the ladies’room. What’s a girl to do.
This whole rational is an insult to all women including transgender women. Transgender women are women and act and feel like women. Men's bathrooms are not safe for transgender women because then we become women peeping at men's parts. All bathrooms need to have private stalls for private bathroom needs. The point being that anyone next to you in either bathroom may be looking at you for sexual gratification and with intent to rape even in bathrooms segregated by physical sexual organs. Get real transgender women are women and have no interest in behaving like men. Men who like to dress up as women but identify themselves as gender men are something different. But then their are women who injoy acting and dressing like men and identify as women by gender. What we need is whatever bathrooms and who ever feels free to enter them do so. Denying transgender women their right to be women just shows that many women and men still think of women as second class citizens and women are free game to be treated as prizes in warfare and exist only to bare children and give men pleasure. This is why us transgender women are treated so poorly. When transgenders can be treated with respect and full citizens then all women will have equal rights.
here here!!!
[...] Transgender People Should be Barred from Restrooms | The …Transgender People Should be Barred from Restrooms. I was recently made aware of a disgusting revival of some of the same Raymondiod fallacies that has … [...]
As a transman I find this hilarious. Transwomen are usually docile and straight women are the ones that are the problem (discrimination).
I could see some parents having a problem with a transwoman since a parent could think that an adult male dressed as a female could be a pedophile. But this is highly unlikely. Again, this is discrimination but it is a legitimate concern. Adult women should have no problem with a transwonan unless the woman has a child. But, then again, parents should be protective of their child anyway! It is discriminatory to tell a child a straight woman is okay to trust but a transwoman is not! Children should be taught to be weary of ALL strangers!
Since I have female body parts but identify as a male I usually use the men’s restroom (stall). My male friends think nothing of it. And no one in the men’s room has ever noticed I am a woman. In fact, if I went into the Women’s restroom I would probably get asked to leave! Ha!
cis. The word you’re looking for is cis.
Also, there’s a space between trans and woman.
I’m sorry did you say docile lol
I’m not a woman but I can see there point…have empathy..look at it from their perspective…they don’t consider you women..they consider you guys who think they are women..when I’m in a situation with a woman(say walking down the street,elevator etc) I try to make sure she doesn’t feel intimidated..i croos over to other side or a stand as far away etc..
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