It’s happened. The H-BSers, the RadPhlems and the people who DEFENDED Prop 8 have untied as one voice to proclaim that pre/non-op transwomen as a group are 1.) icky because 2.) they’re actually men, and therefore 3.) a danger to cisgender women.
“Now, it’s a Right Wing Organization that is standing up for Women and Girls…”
– Cathy “Sorry About Your Dick & I’m Not A Bigot” Brennan
Yes, because that’s what right wing organizations do, Brennan. They… stand up for women and girls. Here’s a tip to my readers: if you ever find yourself agreeing with the positions of far right wingers about specific groups of people – especially the uber wing nuts who defended Prop 8 – you’re most likely experiencing a break from reality.
While it would be both easy and fun easy to PWN everyone who’s jumped on the trans restroom meme bandwagon, to do so would miss the real issue here. The issue I’m writing about today is that all 3 of these groups regularly deploy what I’m going to call the ‘Klan Fallacy’ against transwomen. The most recent incarnation of this particular fallacy is the Colleen Francis meme. The central rhetorical weapon the Klan has historically used (and continues to use to this day) is the ‘someone in your group is an asshole; therefore, everyone in your group is a potential asshole’ fallacy. If someone in the black community turns out to be a sick fuck, then the Klan will encourage you to stereotype black people - collectively as a group – as being potential sick fucks. It’s their one-trick pony and if they can con you into viewing black people – collectively as a group – as a possible risk, the process of dehumanization has begun… and for the Klan, that process serves but one goal: segregation.
The ‘Klan Fallacy’ used to support racial segregation
Likewise, when anti-trans groups deploy the Klan Fallacy, they’re doing so to support their goal of achieving institutionalized segregation of cis and trans folk.
Every time I hear someone burble about how pre-op transwomen should be excluded from a “women’s space” they seem to always use the Klan Fallacy. If a sick fuck turns out to be trans, they claim that in the interest of safety for ciswomen, all transwomen – or at the very least, all pre-op transwomen – should be segregated from ciswomen. They’ll assert that their call for segregation isn’t about bigotry; instead they’ll insist that it’s a simple issue of safety. They just need to segregate the transwomen from the ciswomen because transwomen pose an inherent risk – they’ll even try to point to a case or two in our nation’s history to ‘prove’ that the risk transwomen pose to ciswomen is so great that segregation is the only rational response:
I support rational anti-discrimination protections for people of transgender and transsexual experience… The definition of gender identity that the LGBT organizations keep putting forth is overbroad, and allows males who are not transgender or transsexual access into female only space. – Cathy “I’m not a bigot!” Brennan
Diving into the rhetorical game of the RadFem, H-BSer and Fundie:
In case you’re still not grasping why the ‘Klan Fallacy’ is problematic, let me illustrate:
These are womyn born womyn and they’re dangerous. These womyn born womyn are guilty of rape. They’ve even stalked their victims and raped them at knife point. This is undeniable proof that womyn born womyn are a danger and for the sake of creating safe places, we need laws on the books that will keep people safe from womyn born womyn. I don’t hate womyn born womyn; that’s not the issue. I support rational equality; and besides, this isn’t even an equality issue here… I’m not a bigot. Let me say that again… I AM NOT A BIGOT! From the evidence presented here, one can only rationally conclude that womyn born womyn can obviously become dangerous predators. These above examples are just a small sample of the long, long list of womyn born womyn perverts.
HAI! I’m a womyn born womyn who’s into child porn! I also like to molest 8 year old children!
The list goes on and on. Lives were ruined by these womyn born womyn perverts. This isn’t about me. This is about YOU and the safety of YOUR family. What would YOU do if one of your kids found themselves alone with a womyn born womyn?
Worse, did you know womyn born womyn are organizing to expand their power in influence in society? They even hold annual gatherings to plot their next move. They’re already in the classrooms. They’ve already used their position as womyn born womyn teachers to prey upon YOUR children. Again, this is a real issue that the media isn’t covering… and do you know why? It’s not politically correct to go on record as taking a stand against womyn born womyn. Do you really want womyn born womyn hanging out in the bathroom? What about your child’s school shower? Do you really want to take that chance? I know I don’t!!!
See how this rhetorical game is played?
From Cathy Brennan’s womyn-born-womyn blog
Can you now see how they take what is truly horrific - very real brutal and tragic events – and dishonestly pimp out the suffering of victims for their particular disgusting brand of bigotry? Any dishonest person could make this exact same type of argument against H-BSers or right wingers. Anyone could make this same type of ‘argument’ against any religious sect. I could dig up weird kinky stories H-BSers wrote and claim that H-BSers as a group are pervs that need to be treated with suspicion. Anyone could talk about right wingers who have raped women and children and claim in the interests of safety – not out of bigotry – right wingers as a group need to be feared. It’s a trick bigots use to con people into supporting their bigotry. Their bigotry can’t stand on its own two feet; it will always grotesquely pimp out the suffering of innocent victims in the hope that the shock of the crime will shut down your critical thinking so that you will compliantly view an entire group of people as being capable of the very same crimes. It’s a disgusting and shameful rhetorical game that bigots use because it works. It’s a repugnant and manipulative game: inspire you to feel horror and trick you into shifting the horror you correctly feel about a disgusting behavior onto a entire group… And then as if that wasn’t not bad enough, they will then encourage YOU to go out and pull this same trick on others!
The Klan Fallacy is fallacious because this blood-soaked bigot’s weapon can be used against ANY and ALL groups. Remember when the ‘Klan Fallacy’ was used against gay people? Remember how the right claimed that DADT was about unit cohesion because a soldier wouldn’t be able to keep his mind on his job if there were homosexuals in the restrooms and showers… waiting????
People and groups who use this argument should be shunned by any and all rational human beings. When you hear the ‘Klan Fallacy’ used, you should automatically know that you’re listening to a bigot. If you’d like to make their head explode, simply ask them the following question:
“In what way does gender equality nullify laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance?”
They won’t have a reasoned response. They’ll simply try to again appeal to emotion. While they’ll tap dance all over the place, the one thing they won’t be able to do is explain to you how gender equality nullifies laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance. (Yes, I’m talking to you Usher and Brennan)
Bigots will just tell you all about how some white people don’t like being in the same space as black people, that some Christians don’t like being in the same space as Muslims or how some ciswomen don’t like being in the same space as transwomen. They’ll tell you that their discomfort is really, really important. In fact, they’ll look you in the eye and tell you that their discomfort is more important than your access to the 14th amendment. But that’s not how things as supposed to work here in America, is it?
Yes; a heterosexual soldier might feel uncomfortable in the same locker room as a homosexual soldier, but that’s tough shit. The soldier who views homosexuals as a whole with a wary eye has the problem, not the homosexual soldier. If a gay person behaves inappropriately after lifting DADT, then the law will deal with their bad behavior instead of reinstating DADT… no matter how much various anti-queer hate groups tie themselves into knots.
Yes; a white person might feel uncomfortable in the locker room with a black person, but that’s tough shit… right? We don’t segregate black people from white people because some white people have bigoted ideas about black people which cause them to feel uncomfortable. No; the white bigot has the issue and they need to just fucking deal with it. If a black person behaves inappropriately after the victories of the civil rights movement, then the law will deal with their bad behavior instead of repealing the civil rights act… no matter how much the Klan ties themselves into knots.
If a ciswoman feels uncomfortable knowing that a transwoman might use the same restroom, then likewise, it’s tough shit. A ciswoman’s right to believe the ‘Klan Fallacy’ does not trump the rights of transwomen as a whole. No, the nation shouldn’t set up a system of segregation because some ciswomen choose to hold bigoted views. If a transperson behaves inappropriately after proliferation of gender equality laws, then the law will deal with their bad behavior instead of repealing all the gender equality laws… no matter how much the H-BSers, RadFems and Republicans might tie themselves into knots.
Reality Check:
Now that I’ve dealt with the rhetorical tools of bigots, let’s review some reality:
I have spent so many hours avoiding public multi-stall bathrooms that I have damaged my bladder and put pressure on my kidneys. The problem was a daily one. I’d think about where I was going what bathrooms I’d have access to, how much I drank during the day, whether I’d be with people who could help stand guard…
- Response to a 2002 survey conducted by the San Francisco Human Rights Commission which found that nearly 50% of transgender respondents reported harassment or assault in a public bathroom
We live under the constant threat of horrifying violence. We have to worry about what bathroom to use when our bladders are aching. We are forced to consider whether we’ll be dragged out of a bathroom and arrested or face a fist fight while our bladders are still aching. It’s an everyday reality for us. Human beings must use toilets… If I go into the women’s bathroom, am I prepared for the shouting and shaming? Will someone call security or the cops? If I use the men’s room, am I willing to fight my way out? Am I really ready for the violence that could ensue?
- Leslie Feinberg, Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue, p 68 – 69
Police officers often harass or abuse transgender and gender nonconforming people regardless of which sex-segregated bathroom they use. This harassment intensifies when coupled with the stereotyping of trans people as sexual predators. As such, the use of the ‘wrong’ bathroom . . . often results in arrests for crimes such as public lewdness, public obscenity, or public indecency. Refusing to comply with or simply questioning a police officer’s direction as to which bathroom the individual must use can often lead to charges such as resisting arrest or disorderly conduct.
- Pooja Gehi, Struggles from the Margins: Anti-Immigrant Legislation and the Impact on Low-Income Transgender People of Color, 30 WOMEN’S RTS. L. REP. 315, 326 (2009)
And it doesn’t stop with bathrooms. This level of violence is something trans folk must consider when buying cloths too. Here’s what State Rep. Richard Floyd (R) said he’d do to a trans person if they dared to buy clothes like anyone else might:
I believe if I was standing at a dressing room and my wife or one of my daughters was in the dressing room and a man tried to go in there — I don’t care if he thinks he’s a woman and tries on clothes with them in there — I’d just try to stomp a mudhole in him and then stomp him dry.
Again, to hit home just how longstanding this meme is, consider the following quote from a 1970 anti-trans equality legal decision:
There are numerous subjects who would want to change their sex identity in order to perpetrate crimes of homicide, tape, robbery, assault, etc.”
- Columbus v. Zanders, 266 N.E.2d 602, 604–06 (Ohio Mun. Ct. 1970)
To be graphically explicit about the reality transwomen face…
And isn’t it just awesome how transwomen are arrested for emptying their bladder:
When we talk about the things Rosanne Barr said, we need to address the underlying Klan Fallacy. We need to be clear when right-wingers deploy the trans bathroom meme; we need to loudly talk about the bigot’s game that’s being played. For the Klan, if they can get you to buy into their fallacy, the process of dehumanization will begin. You’ll easily conflate rape (a behavior) with the African-American community (an identity) and the African-American community will naturally become a group that you treat with suspicion. Moreover, you’ll find yourself supporting the idea of segregation. Likewise, if RadFems and fundies can get you to perform this same mental gymnastic, you won’t see the need to ask RadFems and fundies to explain exactly how gender equality laws nullify existing laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance. When you look at race through anti-equality glasses, the risk the African-American community poses will seem self-evident and when you look at gender through those same glasses, the supposed risk the trans community poses will seem just as self-evident.
There is a real difference between a transwomen going into a private area to change, pee, etc. and some sick fuck-up of any flavor (cis or trans) walking into a room to parade their genitalia around. If a cisgender woman goes into the locker room and exposes herself, then there’s laws to deal with her behavior. Claiming that those laws somehow magically evaporate if the person is trans instead of cis is a bigoted lie and those who propagate that lie should be called out at every turn.
cross-posted from Ehipassiko
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[...] Educate yourself. Know. Your. History. [...]
Trans community news this week: beating and robbing an elderly woman, conspiring with a cop-killer, and yet another threat of violence directed at school children:
Transsexual attack, rob creditor
CHAIYAPHUM – Police on Thursday arrested a transgender man for attacking an elderly woman he owed money to and stealing her money and gold jewellery.
_______________________
Wednesday, Jan. 9, 2013
Transgender woman takes stand in trial of accused cop killer
PITTSBURGH — A man charged with killing a police officer and another victim sent text messages to his longtime girlfriend demanding she tell police he was with her the day of the fatal shootings, a former county detective testified Tuesday.
____________________________
Miami Lakes teen arrested for school Twitter threats
DOVALLE@MIAMIHERALD.COM
In the wake of last week’s deadly school shooting in Connecticut, Miami-Dade police have arrested a 16-year-old student at Miami Lakes Educational Center who threatened on Twitter to “shoot up this school this Friday.”
Austin Lee Bowlin was charged with making a threat to injure others after he sent a series of tweets, via cellphone, after his principal made a safety announcement on the school’s loudspeaker Monday morning. He has been suspended.
Bowlin wrote he was going to “shoot up the school this Friday. Prepare yourself” and that he was “making a list and checking it twice. We’re about to see who gets shot up real nice,” according to an arrest report.
Don’t forget about here in the UK! There are professional misconduct allegations pending against the first trans practitioner who runs a gender clinic. Also, the British media report that the 2 youngest MTFs to be allowed to transition in Great Britain have been engaged in criminal activity, including prostitution or illegal drugs. One of these young people changed his mind and has now decided that he is a boy. Fortunately, he realized this before he was surgically mutilated, but not before getting involved in trans-related criminal activity.
Is it a coincidence that every one of these pioneers is revealed to have had involvement with anti-social, unprofessional, or criminal conduct?
Oh, honey. You spent New Years Eve. Christmas and Thanksgiving here. It’s so sad that this place is your sad substitute for any real human connection. And it’s little wonder that you’ve been abandoned by your children – this is your kinder and more loving self. Lord knows what level of dysfunction you inflicted on them.
Bleak indeed. This is the lowest level of dysfunction and greatest degree of human connection you’re capable of.
Transgender arrested in Arizon for threatening to shoot children at high school:
“Part of the post reportedly said the following: “I now literally have a plan of seriously hurting… killing… murdering people in my high school. And a playlist to do it.”
According to [police Sgt.] Jones, the post went on to say, “I WORK at the high school as a student teacher basically… which is why no one can find out about me somewhat accidentally planning to blow up the school. (and yes… it would be super easy…)”
“Authorities found three handguns in her home, including a semi-automatic .40 caliber, a .357 revolver and a .22 revolver.”
“A longtime friend who played with her in a band says she recently came out as transgendered.”
Johnny Bench called.
i’ll bet you had the world’s gushiest orgasm when you typed that post & response to yourself with one hand.
The cleaning staff must really dread your office.
Hmm. As far as I know, blue-eyes, white skin, and Asian heritage are not conditions that can be found in the DSM. You wish that transgender were as benign as these, but it isn’t.
Do you support this trans person from Arizona?
Um… simply being TG isn’t in the DSM anymore. As soon as someone addresses their issues of dysphoria, they no longer have a condition found in the DSM. I support all trans folk being treated equally. I want this trans person to be treated exactly like the many cis people who pull this same kind of crap. You seem to not want that. Do you want a separate legal standard applied to trans folk?
As I said, you’re too obtuse to grasp that you’ve consequently proven my point. I kinda wonder if you’re not a poe.
I need to contact Guiness. Surely you have the most wrinkled fingers in the world. Unless they count both hands.
Oh, I know this game! It’s where you pretend that what the other person said means something else entirely! Ok… let me give it a go:
Thank you for acknowledging that your ideological counterparts are found in the Klan.
[As for the DSM, the changes haven't happened yet]
Bawhahahaha! You’ve got to be a poe! No actual person is this facile! As I’m sure you know, GD is now gone the moment folks reach comfort with their body. It used to be, once you had GID, one always had GID until they died.
So, to be clear, your awesome logic is:
A.) Transgender people have a dangerous mental illness, because:
B.) The new DSM hasn’t been officially published yet, therefore all trans folk are mentally ill, but:
C.) Upon the day of the publication of the new DSM, only pre-transition trans folk will be mentally ill.
You can pretend that the new DSM standards aren’t being worked with now, you can pretend that all that’s happened was a simple name change, and you can pretend that one isn’t “cured” of the DX upon transition, but that only makes you demonstrably delusional – a trait I find common among your lot.
Did you know that the APA now states that your behavior is not aligned with what is known about mental health.
The American Psychiatric Association:
1.) Supports laws that protect the civil rights of transgender and gender variant individuals.
2.) Urges the repeal of laws and policies that discriminate against transgender and gender variant people.
3.) Opposes all public and private discrimination against transgender and gender variant individuals in such areas as health care, employment, housing, public accommodation, education, and licensing.
4.) Declares that no burden of proof of such judgment, capacity, or reliability shall be placed upon these individuals greater than that imposed on any other persons.
http://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Advocacy%20and%20Newsroom/Press%20Releases/2012%20Releases/12-36-APA-Position-Statements-on-Transgender.pdf
Ew… ouch! Three and four seem to be a bit problematic for you since your appealing to the APA to support the exact opposite position. Seems like your ideology and the evidence based ideology of the APA is different. Why do you suppose that is? Why do you need to engage in behavior the APA has deemed to be not aligned with what is known about mental health? If fact, the APA makes it quite clear that it’s well-known your behavior results in real and measurable suffering within the trans population. How old were you when you found that you enjoyed harming others? That’s a serious issue, you know. I encourage you to seek help as soon as possible.
Speaking of trans activists and criminal conduct, the very first transgender person elected to the state legislature is a convicted felon. Is this because, as was reported by NGLTF in its recent report on transfolk, crime rates among transfolk are much higher than in the general population?
“First Transgender State Rep. Quits Over Felony Revelations
New Hampshire state Rep.-elect Stacie Laughton (D) — the first openly transgender person elected to any state legislature in the United States — stepped aside on Tuesday after a local newspaper reported on her prior felony convictions.
Laughton, 28, was elected to the New Hampshire House of Representatives earlier this month. It wasn’t until after her election that the Laconia Daily Sunreported on her three felony convictions in 2008 for credit card fraud and conspiracy to commit fraud. At the time of her convictions, Laughton was known as Barry Charles Laughton and served four and a half months in prison.”
@51a858147014b75637ff030cffd907ae:disqus
1.) BS. Cite the source which asserts, “crime rates among transfolk are much higher than in the general population”
It’s very true that transfolk are more victimized than cis folk. Around HALF of trans folks have been raped* and around HALF have been assaulted^.
I assert that you’re full of shit. Prove me wrong by citing a study wherein it’s found that trans folk are more likely than cis folk to commit crimes. Also, re-read the section of this post wherein the Klan makes the same argument you’re pushing.
2.) Are you saying that only trans politicians have been found guilty of crimes? Are you saying that only trans politicians have committed crimes before getting into office? Exactly what’s your point?
———————————
* 59% raped: Clements, K. SF Department of Public Health, Department of Public Health. (1999). The transgender community health project: Descriptive results. San Francisco: San Francisco.
* ^ 46% raped & 60% assaulted: Kenagy, G., & Bostwick, W. (2005). The health and social service needs of transgender people in Chicago. International Journal of Transgenderism, 8(2/3), 57-66. doi: 10.1300/J485v08n02_06
* ^ 54% raped & 51% assaulted: Kenagy, G. (2005). The health and social service needs of transgender people in Philadelphia. International Journal of Transgenderism, 8(2/3), 45-56. doi: 10.1300/J485v08n02_05
* 43% assaulted: Xavier, J., Bobbin, M., & Singer, B. (2005). A needs assessment of transgendered people of color living in Washington, DC. International Journal of Transgenderism, 8(2/3), 31-47. doi: 10.1300/J485v08n02_04
@51a858147014b75637ff030cffd907ae:disqus
Additionally, I’m utterly amazed by your stupendous and ghastly buncombe!
You’re using the exact fallacy I wrote about in the beginning of this post! There’s a graph (in the first part of my post) that the Klan often uses to support their call for segregation. It’s making the exact argument you’ve just employed.
That you write as if you’re oblivious to the fact that your logic is exactly the same as the Klan’s logic is incredible to me. Since black people have a higher incarceration than white people, would you draw the same conclusions you’re making about trans people? If not, why not?
It’s not at all amazing to me that an extremely oppressed group of people have a higher incarceration rate. But, that’s not the argument you’re making here, is it? You’re trying to – in the exact way the Klan does – claim that because this particular population has a higher incarceration rate, there’s something inherently wrong with them and that we should view the entire group with suspicion.
The study you cite doesn’t find that trans people are more prone to crime (which is your fact assertion); rather, it only shows that an extremely obsessed group is more often targeted by police… in exactly the same way that any other extremely oppressed group is.
In my post I explicitly used your ‘more of your group are criminals’ argument as an introduction to Klan rhetoric… and yet, YOU STILL USED THEIR ARGUMENT! How can it be that you were blind to that?
I’m absolutely baffled at your apparent cognitive deficiency. Your bigotry has caused you to have a huge moral blind spot that seem to be happy about having. To put it plainly, you’re operating out of a tautology.
I’m betting that even now – in this very moment – you’re unable to grasp that you’ve just made the exact argument the Klan makes against black people. I’m betting that as you read this you’re thinking that it is I – not you – who are bias, blind and simply full of BS. You won’t be able to express that awareness in any rational way, but you’re gut is telling you this right now, right?
Can you, in any rational way, explain why your logic is flawed when the Klan uses it against black people but is suddenly valid when used against trans people?
While you’re pondering this, think about the following headline from a known hate group:
[U.S. sexuality survey shows homosexuals 107% more likely to engage in criminal activities
A forty-eight page study to be published two weeks from now in the peer-reviewed journal, Psychological Reports, compares extensive and newly released Center for Disease Control (CDC) data, concluding that homosexuals are far more likely to engage in illegal and socially dangerous behaviour than heterosexuals. In fact, according to the study, homosexuals are over 107% more likely to have been booked for illegal activity than heterosexuals.]
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2005/jun/05061307
Recognize the rhetorical game this hate group is playing?
No, of course you don’t.
I would be pleased to respond, but I think in fairness you should first publish my comment that you are responding to above.
I don’t run the comments on this site. I can comment, exactly like you can.
OK, well someone disappeared my prior comment, in which I provided you with a link to the NGLTF survey, and asked that you provide actual links to your studies.
I further noted that the NGLTF survey was written by transfolk and paid for by a pro-trans organization, so if anything, it is likely to be biased in favor of transfolk. It is ridiculous to compare it to Paul Cameron’s research on gay people.
In any event, the Task Force survey authored by 2 trans activists shows a trans incarceration rate of 17%, compared to 2.7% of the the general population. Now, this only reflects the incarceration rate. It wouldn’t include the very many instances in which transfolk committed crimes but weren’t caught, or were caught but couldn’t be prosecuted for various reasons, or where they were caught and prosecuted but were able to get a sentence that did not involve incarceration. When you consider all that is left out of the 17%, the full horrifying scope of the trans crime problem becomes apparent.
You note the high rates of trans victimization of crime. But I don’t challenge those stats at all. In fact, they are totally consistent with the conclusion that transfolk have a very high rate of crime. The more widespread criminal and antisocial conduct in the trans community, the more likely it is that transfolk will also be victimized. Being a criminal also means having a greater risk of being a victim of criminals. To put it more bluntly, people who spend most of their time at work and at home paying bills are a lot less likely to be victimized than people engaging in street crime or people who are living as inmates in the prison system. Fix the trans crime problem and you will go a long way toward fixing the trans crime victimization problem too.
It’s too bad that you choose to focus your passion and energy on such silly issues as the right of nontransitioning transfolk to be naked in front of teenaged girls. If you truly were compassionate and had a genuine heart for transfolk, you would get to work on reducing the levels of trans crime.
I see. You’re just gonna pretend that you’re not using the exact same argument against the trans community that the Klan uses against the black community.
The study you cite doesn’t find that trans people are more prone to crime (which is your fact assertion); rather, it only shows that an extremely obsessed group is more often targeted by police.
I also see that you’ve simply chosen to ignore the link wherein another hate group uses your logic to claim that a legitimate peer-reviewed study by the CDC shows, “… homosexuals 107% more likely to engage in criminal activities.”
Are you really going to pretend that your argument is fallacious when applied to people like yourself and black people, but suddenly becomes rational when applied to trans folk? Surely you’re not that cognitively deficient.
I am not sure what Klan argument you are referring to. But since I am not making any point about African-Americans, (or “the black community” as you condescendingly refer to l African-Americans) then by definition it would not be the “exact same argument.” If the Klan said that “all African Americans are killers” and you claimed that “all residents of Alaska are killers,” those aren’t the same arguments. Both may be wrong, but each would be assessed based on the evidence, since they are separate claims.
The issue is trans crime. Not gay crime. Not crime in the “black community.” Trans crime. It is pretty depressing, I know, but don’t try to run away from the issue. You can’t run from the truth.
As for the survey, it does not back up what you say at all. There is a separate question dealing with police bias, and only 7% of respondents claim to have been jailed because of that. Even assuming that all 7% were all telling the truth and/or accurately perceiving the reason for their incarceration and even assuming that those 7% had no other legitimate incarcerations, that would still leave a trans incarceration rate of 10% or 4 times the general population. And if we made comparable adjustments to the general population figure, i.e., backing out incarcerations due to bias, the ratio would be even higher.
You insult people a lot. I don’t understand why. I also don’t understand why you won’t agree that trans crime is a serious problem that is linked to trans victimization.
BTW, I again ask you to post links to your cited studies. You should want to make this data as readily accessible as possible.
[I am not sure what Klan argument you are referring to.]
Wow. You’re obviously commenting on an article you’ve not even read. Typical.
[ If the Klan said that "all African Americans are killers"]
Read the goddamn article. That’s not what the Klan is saying and that’s therefore not the ‘Klan argument’ I’m referring to. Had you bothered to read the article before sharing your opinion about it, you’d know this.
Until you can prove that you’ve bothered to read the article by posting into a reply – using your own words – exactly what the ‘klan argument’ is, I’m not going to engage you as anything more that the self-important mudsill you’ve proven yourself to be.
You really need to stop the name calling. It is inappropriate. Also, proofread your comments.
I thought you might have been referring a new Klan argument. I clearly am not making the so-called “Klan fallacy” asserted in your piece. I am simply saying that transfolk have much higher rates of crime than the general population.
That is a fact. I never inferred from that fact that all transfolk are criminals or “assholes” or that they should be segregated. However, even if I had made that argument, it would have to be evaluated on its own merits based on the evidence pertinent to the trans community. It wouldn’t be invalidated simply because the Klan may make that argument against a different group. And of course it wouldn’t be invalidated by your name-calling.
A higher crime rate, by definition, means a greater likelihood that any random trans person may have a criminal past. Thus, when Ms. Laughton was elected, the odds that something like this would come out were much higher than they would be for a random cis legislator. That is simply statistics at work, dear.
When are you going to address the trans crime problem? Are you seriously going to claim that the trans community has the same crime rate as the general population? If the answer to that question is no, and if you refuse to address this issue, then you bear some responsibility for the violence and heartache that befalls not only the transfolk caught up in crime but also the victims of these transfolk.
Until you can prove that you’ve bothered to read the article by posting into a reply – using your own words – exactly what the ‘klan argument’ is, I’m not going to engage you as anything more that the hubris mudsill you’ve proven yourself to be.
I have. I’ve told you. You just won’t engage. It’s OK. I understand. Take some time and think through your position a little more. You’ll work it out.
Oh noes… not arguing with an anonymous troll sock account on the internet about an article they’ve not read means that I don’t care about transfolk.
Unless you can – in your own words – explain what constitutes a “Klan Fallacy” I’ve no reason to believe that you’ve actually read the article you’re commenting on.
You aren’t just arguing with me. You are expressing your views to the trans community in these public comments, no less than in the original post.
Share with the community your view as to whether the trans crime rate is very high, much higher than the rate in the general population. And tell us what, if anything, you are doing about it.
I think…
…
…
“In his student days, he used to argue that if a woman has no other course open to her but starvation, prostitution, or throwing herself from a bridge, then surely the prostitute, who has shown the most tenacious instinct for self-preservation, should be considered stronger and saner than her frailer and no longer living sisters. One couldn’t have it both ways, he’d pointed out: if women are seduced and abandoned they’re supposed to go mad, but if they survive, and seduce in their turn, then they were mad to begin with.”
― Margaret Atwood
“You don’t understand. I only prostitute the part of the body that isn’t important, and nobody suffers except my karma a little bit. I don’t do big harm. You prostitute your mind. Mind is seat of Buddha. What you do is very very bad. You should not use your mind in that way”
― John Burdett
I’d end bigotry like yours.
“The prisons in the United States had long been an extreme reflection of the American system itself: the stark life differences between rich and poor, the racism, the use of victims against one another, the lack of resources of the underclass to speak out, the endless “reforms” that changed little. Dostoevski once said: “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
It had long been true, and prisoners knew this better than anyone, that the poorer you were the more likely you were to end up in jail. This was not just because the poor committed more crimes. In fact, they did. The rich did not have to commit crimes to get what they wanted; the laws were on their side. But when the rich did commit crimes, they often were not prosecuted, and if they were they could get out on bail, hire clever lawyers, get better treatment from judges. Somehow, the jails ended up full of poor black people.”
― Howard Zinn, A People’s History of the United States: 1492 to Present
“You make someone into a object of – not so much of pity as of weakness, sickness, stupidity, inefectiveness, do you see what I mean? You hit them for their stupidity and their inability to respond, and when you’ve hurt them, marked them, they’re even more sick and ugly, aren’t they? And they’re afraid and cringing too. Oh, I know this isn’t very pleasant, but you did ask.”
“Go on” he said.
“So you’ve got a frightened, stupid, even disabled person, silenced, made ugly, and what can you do with someone like that, someone who’s unworthy of being treated well? You treat them badly because that’s what they deserve. One thinks of poor little kids that no one love because they’re dirty, sovered in snot and shit, and always screaming. So you beat them because they’re hateful, they’re low, they’re sub-human. That’s all they’re good for, being hit, being reduced even further.”
― Ruth Rendell, Simisola
I truly don’t know what is required to change people like yourself.
Fortunately, it’s unneccessary to do so.
Well, at least we can agree that the trans crime problem, and the related trans incarceration problem, are serious. I would have liked to see some real solutions from you, but just your acknowledging the reality of the problem deserves praise.
FYI… At the time I didn’t control comments on this site. Now, I do.
Amazing how many people you pretend to be, BTW.
28 murders – 20 of them young children – and all that tragedy is just a joke to you?
Go take a look at your children, your nieces and nephews – and think about how lucky you are..
You seem like a well spoken rational person who is willing engage in a civil dialogue with anyone. It’s unfortunate that you are subject to all the hate you get from right wing bigots, radical feminist dykes and separatist TS’s alike.
Not a fan of Ashely Love or Autumn Sandeen. Niether speak for me. I do think that Colleen , a pre-op was an idiot for flashing herself in front of little girls. She should have known better. She has done TS’s a great disservice .
Thank you!
The people who need to be ‘called out’ are Transvestites like Cristan who have appropriated the word Transphobia from actual Transsexuals. If you have no intention to transition, you are a Transvestite and have no right to appropriate the Transsexual dialogue/equality fight.
The gist of this overly long piece is that we shouldn’t use the “klan fallacy” against trans people, i.e., we shouldn’t impute the antisocial behavior of one individual to the whole group.
The problem with this argument is that there is ample evidence that transgender people, as a group, are very likely to be emotionally unstable, psychologically unbalanced, and prone to antisocial conduct. (It is interesting to note that the author herself, posting a bylined article for a well-known trans activist blog, cannot help but lace the article with profanity. That is a lack of impulse control and/or a failure to appreciate how to communicate respectfully with others. Both examples of antisocial conduct.)
That is not to say that 100% of the group is so affected. But a large majority is. Drawing inferences from that sad fact is not a “klan fallacy.”
As for Colleen Francis, this is a teachable moment. This is an excellent opportunity for Washington state to revisit its law regarding gender identity to ensure that this sort of situation never arises again. There is absolutely no reason for any community to accept or tolerate an adult self-identified woman lounging around displaying genitals in front of children. Women’s groups in WA will be working to modify the law legislatively and through sexual harassment impact litigation. LGB groups should fully support these efforts.
I blame that perception on being unfairly associated with the weirdos who say they dislike us, but spend innumerable hours in our presence. Like that Vic “dude”. And others. What odd psychopathology drives people so strongly to associate themselves with others they project their illness upon and who they constantly say they dislike.
It not a particularly adaptive behavioral pattern. And odd that they’re so blind to it.
[The problem with this argument is that there is ample evidence that transgender people, as a group, are very likely to be emotionally unstable, psychologically unbalanced, and prone to antisocial conduct. ]
Cite your source and after doing that, explain to all of us how gender equality nullify laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance.
I could claim – with just as much evidence as you’ve provided for your assertion – that the problem with YOUR overly long piece is that there is ample evidence that people named Michael, as a group, are very likely to be emotionally unstable, psychologically unbalanced, and prone to antisocial conduct.
I could claim – with just as much evidence as you’ve provided for your assertion – that the Michael Myers movies offer teachable moments.
Your argument is malformed, unsupported and completely sidesteps the ONE SINGLE SIMPLE challenge of my post: Explain to all of us how gender equality nullify laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance.
I’ll wait while you formulate a relevant response.
*taps foot and looks at watch*
Lol! I am not your employee, so keep tapping. Do you really own a watch?
Your overly long piece above is not about how “gender equality” nullifies laws prohibiting rape, etc. That notion isn’t even mentioned until the last sentence of your piece. In any event, no one is claiming that these laws are “nullified.” Obviously, they are on the books and enforceable.
The issues are two: 1) whether allowing biological males into women’s lockers increases the risk of a sexual crime, even though it is undisputed that the laws against such crimes are in effect and would be enforced against a trans perpetrator, and 2) whether, even assuming that there will never be a single sex crime committed by any trans person, real women and real girls should be placed in distress by having to undress in front of biological males.
You think that everyone else should alter their routines and expectations in private settings in order to accommodate people like Colleen. I don’t. We resolve this dispute through legislation and policy making. That is why I and others will work to modify the gender identity provisions in WA law to make clear that transwomen in situations comparable to the Colleen Francis story will have no basis for filing any complaint and indeed will be subject to arrest, depending on the circumstances.
[That notion isn't even mentioned until the last sentence of your piece. ] Wrong.
[1) whether allowing biological males into women's lockers increases the risk of a sexual crime.] That’s a bigots argument. Do you use that same metric against black people? The Klan has a long, long history of claiming that black people pose a risk to white people in the exact way you claim that trans folk pose a risk to cis people. In the 50s, bigots would say that allowing black people in the restroom wasn’t an issue of bigoty; rather, they would simply assert that black people pose a risk to white people… therefore, bigots would say, white people couldn’t take the chance. Here, you’re making the same goddamn bigoted argument. I realize you’re too obtuse to see it, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’ve picked up and are smugly using the same blood-soaked rhetoric the Klan has used for decades. I know, I know… It’s not that you’re a bigot, it’s just that transwomen are a risk to ciswomen because transwomen are prone to being crazy and may start indiscriminately raping people… therefore, you say, cis people shouldn’t take the chance. Whether you accept it or not, whether you see it or nor, you’re a bigot.
[Whether, even assuming that there will never be a single sex crime committed by any trans person, real women and real girls should be placed in distress by having to undress in front of biological males.] And Klan members would tell you that white people shouldn’t be placed in distress by having to undress in front of black people.
The arguments you’re making aren’t based in anything concrete and could, in fact, be made about any single group of people. That’s what makes you a bigot. You may not be a racial bigot, but you are absolutely a gender bigot.
[You think that everyone else should alter their routines and expectations in private settings in order to accommodate people like Colleen. ] I’m sure a lot of white people felt exactly like this when they were faced with desegregation. Yes, I expect YOU to manage the discomfort YOUR bigoted ideas cause you to feel. My 14th amendment rights are more important than your bigoted paranoia.
[That is why I and others will work to modify the gender identity provisions in WA law to make clear that transwomen in situations comparable to the Colleen Francis story will have no basis for filing any complaint and indeed will be subject to arrest, depending on the circumstances.]
And history will remember you for the bigot you are. You and people like you have a long history of teaming up with right wing bigots in an effort to promote trans and cis segregation. You are fighting a losing battle. You future looks like scratching your head wondering why everyone keeps calling you a bigot and why nobody else (but folks like Pat Robertson) can see how rational trans and cis segregation seems. Just know that each time you encounter frustration in the years to come, I’m somewhere smirking at you.
You and the Liberty Counsel speak with one voice on this issue.
Yes, very persuasive. Young girls and their moms who have a problem with a 45-year old man in their locker room lounging around with his dick out are just like the KKK. Anyone who disagrees is a bigot. You should definitely make that case to the good people of WA state.
” Yes, I expect YOU to manage the discomfort YOUR bigoted ideas cause you to feel. My 14th amendment rights are more important than your bigoted paranoia.”
I never said I felt any discomfort, did I? I am a guy. I don’t feel any discomfort if someone with a dick is lounging around nude in the sauna, and that is true whether or not said person with dick identifies as male or transwoman. Frankly, I couldn’t care less who is doing what in my locker, whether they have a dick or not.
This is not about me, but about young girls. You know, real girls. The kind of girl you never were and never will be. You think that they have an obligation to “manage their discomfort” in order to accommodate the behavior of a 45-year old adult. If they don’t want to, they are the KKK. Like I said, take your case to the people. I’m sure they’ll let you know what they think of your argument.
Now about this idea that the 14th Amendment to the Constitution covers nude men in the women’s locker room. If that were true, it would end the discussion. It would be a matter of right and nothing I or anyone else had to say would matter. But even someone as deranged as yourself must know that this is not true. Not even the college that backed “Colleen” invoked a Constitutional right for a non-transitioning biological male to walk around nude in the women’s locker room.
It seems odd that in all these decades of trans activism, not one court has ever held that the 14th Amendment provides such a right. Has NTLDF or any trans organization ever made a 14th Amendment claim in any case to access their preferred bathrooms/locker rooms? No, my dear unhinged transgender, you are simply pulling these arguments out of your hand-crafted vag.
Finally, I don’t think I am losing anything. The truth is that what went on in WA could never happen in 99% of the locker rooms on this planet. I have no doubt that the legalities will be clarified even in WA and not to “Colleen’s” advantage. I’ll keep you apprised of our progress!
It just never gets old. Radfems – pretending to be men – because they think it gives them more authority – when talking about women.
Yes, dear. You’re a man. You live in Washington state, you had such a sucessful demonstration at the MichFest this year.
And when you grow up – you’ll be a doctor and a race car driver. Who has super powers – and lives on the moon.
Ahahahahahaha!!!
Why would a radical feminist think that a man has more authority speaking about women? That is completely the opposite of what the they think. And it wouldn’t serve any purpose to pretend to be male on a blog like TransAdvocate, since no one here would think that being a non-trans male makes me more qualified to speak on these issues.
Sorry to disappoint you but I do not believe in radical feminism. And, I really am male. And so are you.
Exactly – just like your Mom, and just as disappointed in you.
Heh! You really one-upped me there! You win bro. You have the bigger dick.
Don’t worry. You’ll always be deferred to as being the biggest dick. Odd how well you embody what you eschew. “Dude”.
You need to get the last word in. Just like a guy.
You need to try and silence women with a trans history. Just like a radfem. Pardon not like – as a radfem.
Hey – but it’s really easy to prove your dudehood – being all publicly involved in overturning rights in Washington and all. What real man would be too scared to?
But your grand strategy is limited to commenting here. Which I applaud – it’s a mark of how powerless you are that this is your activist venue and the limit of your access.
Keep of the inadequate work, dudette!
“But your grand strategy is limited to commenting here. ”
Believe that if you want. You also believe that you are a woman. I can’t take your fantasies away. Just keep reading the news from WA and see what happens!
Yes, m’am. And while I’m reading the news – how will I know which “man” you are? We can’t have you taking credit for some other gals work.
I’D KNOW THAT VOICE ANYWHERE
… Oh hell, it’s “Vic/y” again, who formerly haunted ENDAblog!
OH BRAVO, ENCORE, “Vic”, WITH YOUR PERSISTENCE YOU WEAR THE VERY ELECTRONS OF THE NETWORK DOWN TO THE NUB
… what a waste of space.
[Young girls and their moms who have a problem with a 45-year old man in their locker room lounging around with his dick out are just like the KKK]
Yes, it’s exactly like the way bigots claimed black people would rob, rape, beat and give white people VD if they were allowed in the ‘white’ bathrooms. And yes, that makes you a bigot. You’re taking one hyped incident that’s mostly echoed in right-wing/RadFem sources when we – in fact – do not know the facts (only the allegation) and then claiming that ALL trans folk pose that same risk. Yes, that makes you a bigot.
[This is not about me, but about young girls. ]
Sure… And using that exact metric, all womyn born womyn should be barred from teaching since it’s a fact that womyn born womyn are into child porn, stalk children, take them hostage and rape them. Right? No, that’s crazy… except when using that metric against trans people, right?
Bigot.
[Now about this idea that the 14th Amendment to the Constitution covers nude men in the women's locker room.]
IF it’s true that the hyped allegations are in fact real, then she should be punished in the **exact** way that a cis woman would be punished for leaning back in a sauna and displaying her genitalia to children. You don’t get to segregate all trans and cis people just because (if the hyped allegations are real) a sick fuck turned out to be trans. I have a long list of women who raped, beat and robbed other women in the women’s restroom. Are you going to use the same metric you’re using against trans women against cis women? Are you going to suggest that women as a group should be barred from the women’s restroom? Nope. You’re only going to use this ‘someone in your group is a sick fuck therefor all of you are potential sick fucks’ argument against trans people because your bigotry make the risk is self-evident. You’ve stereotyped an entire segment of the American population and you want to make laws based upon stereotypes. That you can’t see any issue with your stereotyping is the precise thing that makes you a bigot… In the exact way viewing African-American people as a whole with suspension would make you a racial bigot. It’s the reason your ilk have historically teamed up with racists like Senator Jesse Helms. There’s a reason only your ilk and right wing hate groups like Focus on the Family are making the arguments you’re making. Yes, that makes you are a bigot.
And, yes; you’re trying to fuck with my 14th amendment guarantees by using metrics you’d never use against other groups of citizens in order to legislate trans and cis segregation.
You think you can get away with the ‘someone in your group is a sick fuck therefor all of you are potential sick fucks’ argument because you’re betting you’ll get away with it. That makes you a bigot.
[It seems odd that in all these decades of trans activism, not one court has ever held that the 14th Amendment provides such a right.]
OMG! You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Do some research and get back with me. Gowd… *facepalm*
[I'll keep you apprised of our progress!]
Sure. You go that. Bigot.
Hey, BTW… Why not use the anti-Equal Rights Amendment playbook while you’re at it. You know, the one where as the ERA was about to pass in the 1970s, right-wing bigots published a full-page ad in newspapers claiming that should the ERA pass, dudes would be hanging out in the women’s restroom posing a risk to their safety. Oh, never mind. That IS the argument you’re making. My bad.
No… you keep on believing that – just because you’re using the exact same arguments bigots have historically used, that you’re arguing for segregation, that you’re spreading the exact same type of propaganda bigots have historically used – it doesn’t make you a bigot. Of course not. You know segregation is the only rational course to take, don’t you?
It makes no difference what the AMA, APA or other independent organizations have to say about trans folk, your bigoted heart knows that all them there trannies are a risk to your women-folk. Yes, you grew up to be a bigot. Congratulations, you and James Dobson share the exact same views on trans folk. Go ahead and feel smug about the ideological symmetry you share with hate groups. Tell yourself that you’re not a bigot and maybe this time the hate group got it right.
I see that you have nothing to point to – other than your own profanity-laced commentary – to support the idea that there is a 14th Amendment right for biological males to access women’s locker rooms. Saying “do the research” and face palming is not a response. But if what you say is true, then there is no need for us to waste a lot of time on this issue. All “transwomen” can simply demand court injunctions allowing them full access as required by the Constitution. Issue resolved. Funny that hasn’t happened! In fact, with very few exceptions, bathrooms and lockers are segregated spaces and no court anywhere has ever held that must be integrated.
Call me and everyone else a bigot 10 times in 10 seconds. It doesn’t matter. If the NAACP calls someone a bigot, it matters because that group has moral authority. You have none.
I suspect you are on meds, as are many trans activists. You are a group of mental patients who work out your deeply rooted psychological problems through faux politics.
[I see that you have nothing to point to - other than your own profanity-laced commentary - to support the idea that there is a 14th Amendment right for biological males to access women's locker rooms. ]
Women – that is, ciswomen, transwomen and female-identified intersex people – we all get equal access to use designated women’s facilities to take care of the same business the rest of the women are there to accomplish.
Why? Since you need me to spoon-feed it to you, let’s break it down:
[All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.]
That last little part is what’s important.
I get that you don’t understand why using the metric you wish to legally impose upon the trans community would be a violation of the 14th amendment. When it constitutes what metrics we use to legislate access to public spaces, we have one equal standard. You want to use a special standard you’re not willing to apply to any other group. You want to create laws targeting the trans community justifying it with the ‘someone in your group is a sick fuck therefor all of you are potential sick fucks’ metric – a metric that you’d never apply to any other group of people. You want to create legislation based on the stereotypes you’ve created for yourself.
I get that you don’t understand why segregation would be a violation of the 14th amendment. Nevertheless, segregation is a violation of the 14th amendment.
I get that you think that I’m crazy and that you think most trans folk are crazy; I also get that you’re too obtuse to understand why that’s a bigoted position to hold. I also get that while your bigoted opinions about trans folk are refuted by the American Psychological Association, they are in complete harmony with those of Focus on the Family. I’m sure you think that Focus – a known hate group – got it right this time and that the APA must be crazy.
When the President was knowingly photographed hugging a transwomen because he was moved by her story and the Vice Pres call trans-equality the ‘civil rights issue of our time,’ I think that indicates that your views are becoming out of step with American culture.
The American Psychiatric Association recently made 4 assertions of fact concerning the trans population.
The APA:
1.) Supports laws that protect the civil rights of transgender and gender variant individuals.
2.) Urges the repeal of laws and policies that discriminate against transgender and gender variant people.
3.) Opposes all public and private discrimination against transgender and gender variant individuals in such areas as health care, employment, housing, public accommodation, education, and licensing.
4.) Declares that no burden of proof of such judgment, capacity, or reliability shall be placed upon these individuals greater than that imposed on any other persons.
Ouch. I guess you’d have a problem with #3.
They go on to say:
[Being transgender or gender variant implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities; however, these individuals often experience discrimination due to a lack of civil rights protections for their gender identity or expression. Transgender and gender variant persons are frequently harassed and discriminated against when seeking housing or applying to jobs or schools, are often victims of violent hate crimes, and face challenges in marriage, adoption and parenting rights.]
Did you get that first part? Don’t answer. I know you think you know more about all this stuff than the APA – most trans folk are crazy – right? I mean, pfft… it’s just the American Psychiatric Association disagreeing with you. That doesn’t mean anything, right? It certainly doesn’t mean that you’re a bigot, right?
To be clear: It’s now officially out of step with what is what is known about mental well-being to look upon trans folk with suspicion and contempt when we use the bathroom, buy clothing and just try to live our fucking lives. Just let that sink in.
It’s not just me who thinks you’re acting like a bigot. Here’s more from the APA:
[Discrimination and lack of equal civil rights is damaging to the mental health of transgender and gender variant individuals.]
Your behavior is unhealthy and harmful (or, at least me and the APA thinks so). I know you think I’m wackadoodle and that most trans folk are. I know you really believe you know more than the APA when it comes to this stuff. I know that you think trans folk are dangerous and icky and that the Pres and VP of America disagreeing with you assessment is irrelevant. I know that you’ll tap dance all over the place explaining how everyone who disagrees with your bigotry is wrong and/or crazy. That’s what bigots do and you are most certainly a bigot.
Go on, tell me more about how you’re not a bigot.
I know this is hard for you to grasp, but your opinions about what the 14th Amendment means don’t count for anything. Your commentary here isn’t legal authority. If you have actual legal authority, that is to say, a binding court decision interpreting the 14th Amendment to require access by a biological male to women’s bathrooms or lockers, please identify it. It can be from anywhere in the entire country and you can go back in time as far as you like. Just one decision.
As for Biden, I highly doubt he was referring to the “right” of a grown biological male to access the women’s locker room. Also, if you are reduced to citing one-off remarks from Joe Biden as proof of the success of the great trans movement, you are in bad shape. As far as I know, he has never launched a single policy relating to trans people nor has he even mentioned trans rights specifically prior to this one-off comment, let alone ever suggested that it was the civil rights movement of our time. I doubt he will mention trans issues again in the next 4 years. But hey, you got a one-off Biden comment, so for your pathetic rabble, that probably counts as a huge win.
As for the APA, please learn to read. The APA is saying that being trans, in and of itself, does not imply craziness. That is very different from saying trans people aren’t crazy. In other words, just because trans people aren’t necessarily all crazy doesn’t mean that they are not, in fact, crazy.
And in fact, most are crazy. I agree with the APA that it is not implicit in being trans, i.e., it does not occur in 100% of the trans population and is not a defining characteristic. But it is widely prevalent, as evidenced by, among many other things, a 66% suicide/sucide attempt/suicidal ideation rate. You all should put your energy into healing yourselves, rather than going on crusades against young girls trying to get changed after swim practice. You should learn that raging against the world and spewing profanity won’t solve your many serious problems.
an ego dystonic radfem pretending to be a man online – admits their actions mark them as crazy. And thinks this conveys authority?
Brilliant!
[I know this is hard for you to grasp, but your opinions about what the 14th Amendment means don't count for anything.]
To you. Much like 14th amendment arguments by black people don’t mean much to Klan members… or how 14th amendment arguments by gay people who want to marry mean nothing to most Republicans. That doesn’t change the reality that you want to impose a special legal metric upon only trans people to appease your stereotypes which are, according to the APA, demonstrably out of step with what is know about mental well-being.
[But it is widely prevalent, as evidenced by, among many other things, a 66% suicide/sucide attempt/suicidal ideation rate.]
And would you apply this same metric against gay teens? Are they all crazy too? No, it’s only them there trannies that’s crazy because they deal with suicide, amirite? And I know you think this doesn’t make you a bigot.
Let’s see what the APA has to say about this exact thing:
[Discrimination and lack of equal civil rights is damaging to the mental health of transgender and gender variant individuals. For example, gender-based discrimination and victimization were found to be independently associated with attempted suicide in a population of transgender individuals...]
I know that since you’re a bigot you’ll read that trans folk suffer suicide because they’re crazy, but that’s not, in fact, what the APA is saying. They’re saying that bigots drive the suicide rate within the trans population because bigots can’t help but preoccupy themselves with behaviors which discriminate against trans folk. In other words, the APA views your behavior as harmful and out of step with what is know about psychological well-being. Again, let that sink in because you missed this last time.
[As far as I know, he has never launched a single policy relating to trans people nor has he even mentioned trans rights specifically prior to this one-off comment, let alone ever suggested that it was the civil rights movement of our time.]
Sorry… I’ve been calling you a bigot all this time when I should have been referring to you as an ignorant bigot. Here’s a few things Obama has done for the trans community:
1.) We can get federal ID with our gender marker changed WITHOUT surgery.
2.) It is now against HUD regulations to discriminate against trans folk – in any way – in housing or accommodations.
3.) Not allowing trans folk to use the female bathroom at work is now a Title VII issue. Hell, I’ve recently had the EEOC file against an employer for discriminating against forcing trans women out of the women’s restroom. In fact, the Regional Director is the person who personally reviewed the case and brought it up for action. But, then again, he was my keynote speaker at the banquet my trans organization throws each year. And you know, the last time I sat down with Chai Feldblum, the Obama-appointed Federal EEOC commissioner, we spent time strategizing about how trans equality is a Title VII issue… and now it is.
4.) Transition expenses are now fully tax-deductible as a medical expense.
5.) The VA is now required to provide trans medical care.
I know you need to believe that your views are favored, that we trans folk are irrelevant because we’re all crazy and that you’ll somehow reverse all the legal forward motion that’s already occurred… but I it’s not gonna happen. You’re just a bigot and when you open your mouth in public, there’s always going to be someone like me (or the APA) explaining why you’re views are bigoted. This is the new normal. Get used to it.
But don’t worry, you’re not alone. I hear the good folks in Uganda support your views.
[As for the APA, please learn to read. The APA is saying that being trans, in and of itself, does not imply craziness. That is very different from saying trans people aren't crazy. In other words, just because trans people aren't necessarily all crazy doesn't mean that they are not, in fact, crazy.]
*facepalm*
Any assertion of fact you’ve made has been refuted with an evidence-based argument. You’re basically devolving into saying ‘nu-uh and you’re a poo-poo head.’ You’re not making evidence-based assertions and you’re now claiming that I’m crazy. I know that you won’t accept it, but your lack of a reasoned argument means to folks who aren’t you that I won this debate. Unless you can refute my evidence-based claims with something more than your subjective opinion, you have no reasoned argument.
Unless you reply with something other than your personal unsourced opinion, I’m going to exit this debate knowing that I’ve won by successfully responding to your claims with evidence-based refutations you were not able to answer.
BTW… Did you know that President Obama was cared for – for a few years as a child – by a non-op transgender woman named Evie?
Well, at least we agree that trans people are nuts. Your only response is that their being nuts isn’t so bad because gay kids are supposedly nuts too, and that trans people are nuts because of “discrimination.” Whatever else you might say, you agree that most trans people are nuts, and that’s all I needed to hear.
Now the truth: gay kids have a higher suicide rate when compared to straight kids, sure, but the vast majority don’t attempt or ideate suicide. By contrast, a clear majority of trans people attempt or ideate suicide. I don’t think there is another group on the planet that has a 66% suicide/suicide attempt/suicidal ideation rate.
Discrimination may be a factor, which is all the APA is saying. The APA does not say that discrimination is the primary factor, let alone that it explains all trans nuttiness.
Consider the LA Times sports reporter, about whom much was written 2 years ago. He “transitioned’ from man to fake woman, and got nothing but love and support. He was embraced at the LAT and he never reported any discrimination or hostility. Then “she” changed “her” mind, and transitioned back from fake woman to man. Again, nothing but love and support from friends, colleagues and family. Completely protected by CA and LA anti-discrimination laws. And he killed himself anyway.
As I said, most of you guys are bonkers. 16 year old girls who are enjoying their youth and are thinking about swim practice don’t need to see your craziness or deal with your baggage. Lol! It must really get to you that these girls can be girls naturally, enjoying life without having to carve themselves up and without raging against the world over an endless list of perceived injustices!
k.
Best. Reply. Ever. BTW, I checked out your vids yesterday. Your jugs are sagging badly. You should call up Dow Chemical or whoever made them and demand a refund.
When RadFems pretend to be men online, their true nature slithers out. So far, you’ve said that because I’m a transwoman I’m too emotionally irrational to deal with and my boobs (which you think must be fake) sag. Spoken like a true RadFem.
Nope, never said you were irrational because you were trans. I said that most trans activists, including you, are irrational. The reasons may vary.
And yes, they are seriously sagging. I am just letting you know so that you can do something about it.
Also, as I have said elsewhere, I am not a radical feminist. I don’t agree with what they stand for, in particular the way they characterize men. I’d call myself a moderate feminist. However, the one thing that the “radfems” do right is they stand up to trans activist thugs. I think Brennan has a lot of guts. Even though your crowd has engaged in a campaign of harassment and intimidation, probably making her the most harassed lesbian in the world, she hasn’t backed down.
Her only error has been to try to fight you thugs by herself. Although she’d probably reject my advice as “mansplaining,” I hope that she eventually realizes that the best way to defeat organized bullying is to organize with others against the bullies. There are many victims of trans activist bullies, so she would have no trouble building a powerful counter-force to the tiny mob of hate-filled miscreants who have targeted her.
[ I think Brennan has a lot of guts.]
Of course you do and of course you’re a dude who invests your time trolling trans blogs, who doesn’t like RadFems but happens to think Brennan is awesome, who just happens to know every RafFem talking point and who thinks that organizing anti-trans raids is a great idea.
Sure.
Not only are you hiding behind a sock account assuming what you think male rhetoric sounds like, you’ve still not redressed any of my evidence with anything like a reasoned argument In place of evidence-based statements, you have simple ad hominem attacks, sweeping generalizations and really, really, really obvious attempts to troll me.
OK, if you insist. Your jugs are not sagging evenly. They are asymmetrical. Also, you appear to have gained about 50-60 pounds since your profile pic was taken. Also, you are going bald, which I didn’t even know was possible for an MTF. I wouldn’t have said anything, but you insisted.
Now, once again, old man, I am not a woman and I am not a “radfem.” I don’t know all the ins and outs of your feud with the radfems. I do know some of the issues because, you know, I can read stuff on the internet. You are just going to have to accept that people who are not radfems are similarly getting wise to the violence, deceit and hatred that underlies trans activism.
As for your glorious trans activist march to victory, if what you say is true, then you have nothing to worry about. The future is nothing but blue skies and rainbows. Given this, it might be worth your time to ponder why 66% of trans people are fixated on killing themselves.
As I said in the post you deleted, your fake boobs are asymmetrical, you have gained 60 lbs and you are going bald. Just in case you needed a repeat.
Look who has penis on the brain. You have. You are just an other man, who is so egotistical that you think that you can speak for all women both CIS and Transgender. Do you think that women go to the bathroom to show off their private parts like men do? Michael how perverted can you be? You are hiding behind young girls and women whom you are probably lusting on yourself. Women, rather we are CIS or transgender go to the bathroom to potty and take care of our make up and leave. Only a male who is busy parading his male parts around would focus so much upon them. You are just another male with sex on the brain who is projecting his fantasies upon the rest of the world. Us women have other things to be concerned with other than the wild fantasies of such men. Keep your perverted mind out of the women’s bathroom and leave us women alone.
A small but necessary point.
Could people start using some other reference term instead of ‘rad fems’ ? The people we’re actually concerned with are either on an extreme wing of the rad fem community or not a part of it at all. Maybe rradfems, as in ‘real’ or ‘radical’ or… something else.
Look, I know what you are saying Cristan but the ‘if you sound like a right-wing…” stance. I recently had a conversation on this site with a few transfolk and they honestly sounded like Right Wing Mens Rights Activists. Would black people be ok with white power people at their conferences (seen as you’ve made a ‘klan’ analogy)? Why are feminists meant to be ok with transwomen who sound and act like MRA’s? It is clear from talking to transwomen that post-op/passing transwomen that is, those who have ACTUALLY SUFFERED misogyny, are understanding of feminists and ciswomen. Pre-op/non-passing transwomen just DO NOT understand misogyny at all and how could they? It’s not a conspiracy. White people admit they can only grasp racism intellectually but cannot KNOW it. You have to suffer misogyny 24/7 for a few years to understand it. That’s why the HBers/radfem grouping is happening. Pre-op/non-passing transwomen – at least try and get rid of your horrible misogyny!!! You sound like MRA’s, really you do. YOU are like the KKK trying to force your way into anti-racist spaces!!! And you turn around and blame feminists. I’ll say it again. What are they meant to do welcome you with open arms with your horrible misogyny and MRA views???
Ah – the old “bad cop – somewhat more polite bad cop” routine.
Sounds like the Republicans after losing:
“Bobby Jindal’s plan for the GOP: More of the same, but more politely”
That Damn Cristan! – supports equal rights, abortion rights, equal pay – the hallmarks of the mens rights movement.
I wouldn’t be surprized if you and Cathy were working together or if you were just one of her sockpuppets.
You never want a dialogue…… you just waffle honestly you do! You don’t even address anybody’s points. Is it pointless trying to talk to the trans community politely? I think it is just pointless. It will be your loss, it really will. Your community’s reputation gets more soiled each day. It is tragic and all seemingly your own doing. The trans backlash is going to be horrific and possibly violent if blokes get involved. Good Luck I have tried talking to you. You do not wish to talk, only insult and derail. Left-wing feminists are going to a be a picnic compared to the backlash you will face if you all continue with this attitude in your community, including the MRA advocacy. I have nothing more to say to you Kathy. If you want to help the Trans community I would honestly be quiet if I were you and allow someone who isn’t vindictive to speak for a change.
How could one possibly refuse an ever so polite invitation to discuss say – why women – don’t deserve equal rights? This is your invitation. Consider it declined. Oh – and seriously – I’ve been shot at, had a gun twisted in my ear by a cop on a dark road, had stones thrown at me walking down the street. And a quite bit more. By people I never said a word to. What ever will happen if blokes get involved? Surely you jest.
emotional manuipulation? For crying out loud….. can you lot not have a conversation without emotional manipulation? without insults? without being rude? without derailing conversations? without being misogynistic? without calling people mentally ill? without sounding like the MRA’s? What is with you people? This blog is not a good thing for trans rights at all. If you look at this blog & comments and think it looks ok..there is something wrong with you! I honestly didn’t have an opinion on trans good or bad. After talking to some of you it is now BAD. I can only hope I meet some Transfolk who will change my mind one day. I’m through trying at the moment. Please just leave the adults alone to get on with equality fights that everyone is allowed to discuss freely using intelligence, logic and reason. Bye Now.
I suppose that threat of violence by th blokes should people not comply with your views entailed no emotional manipulation? And didn’t sound the least bit MRA. Don’t let the door hit you……………..
I mean you folks are just talking mainly to women at the moment…anyway look it doesn’t matter…I’ve realised you transtrenders are all quite young and as I’m a little bit older I need to cut you some slack for your remarks and not take these silly comments to represent mature Transfolk. Understand you are a voice for your community everytime you speak and say something selfish/snarky/vindictive/overemotional/silly on the internet and that includes Cristan with the immature radphlem namecalling. These are serious issues that need to be discussed unselfishly and with maturity with regards to the intersectionality with others rights. Have a nice day now.
How could one fail to be inspired by the maturity of anonymous trolls who use threats of violence by men as a tactic to control the behavior of some women?
I suppose were I not a callow youth entering her sixth decade I’d be better prepared to receive the wisdom your most ancient majesty. And appreciate your many civil rights victories you’ve been kind enough to have enumerated. How many state and local nondiscrimination laws do we have to thank you for again?
Surely it couldn’t match the number of times you’ve exited this venue? That would be impressive!
@cristan ‘whatever’ oh dear I am talking to kids….. you say ‘whatever’? I thought you were all being killed everyday! but ‘whatever’. Deary me. Get off the internet before you lose the already very little transrights the HBers got for you. None of you are helping.
Rights H-BSers got for you? I’ve never met a H-BSer that ever did anything to help anyone.
BTW – do you know that you named your pretend syndrome after a man who publicly stated that you can’t change your sex? How ironic is that… imirite?
Tell, me… before the EEOC passed Title VII protections for trans folk, exactly how many times did you strategize with an EEOC commissioner to accomplish just that? How many HUD meetings did you sit in before HUD made housing and accommodation discrimination against trans folk illegal? How many Obamacare meetings have you participated in where the administration considered your input? When did you get it made legal for your state to allow trans folk to get proper ID prior to surgery? How many homeless programs did you start? What research have you done that’s added to what we know about trans history? How many folks did you help get surgery? How many affordable trans heath clinics did you open? How many trans HIV reduction programs did you start? How many anti-trans bills have you defeated? How many trans centers did you open? How many times have you even done something small like train professionals (law enforcement, social workers, etc) who might come in contact with trans folk? Exactly how many non-discrimination policies did you get pushed through in your pubic school system so that trans kids would have recourse to bullying?
If you’d like to talk about experience and who did what for whom then please tell me exactly all the pro-trans community accomplishments you as a H-BSer succeed in achieving.
Go on… List the ways in which any H-BSer did anything other than sit on their asses behind the safety of a computer screen lamely judging others while pretending that they had the courage of their convictions to make up for the fact that they never actually did anything that meant anything to anyone but their own self-inflated ego.
Rights a H-BSer got for trans folk? What utter pathetic BS. Not only do you not care to understand the subject to which you presume to lecture others upon, you also dishonestly lay claim to the hard work of others.
Shame on you.
Prove me wrong. Explicitly enumerate the direct successes of the H-BSer movement which tangibly resulted in the expansion of trans rights.
It is easy to give sympathy/support to Transsexuals. Nobody sympathises with Transvestites and all you others that have stolen the word transphobia from them and have no intention of transitioning. I’m not transphobic and Transvestitephobic doesn’t exist because who gives a toss about a lifestyle that’s chosen? Transsexuals have been co-opted as has the whole LGBT (T for transsexual) movement by straight male transvestites demanding the rights of LGBT. Deny it all you like but straights have taken over LGBT in the name of inclusivity and now the LGBT (T for transsexual like it ALWAYS was it was never transgenderunicornstraights) has no voice. You’re not a ‘lesbian’ are you Cristan? That is, a STRAIGHT man who wears womens clothes and has appropriated transsexual dialogue/equality fight with no intention of transitioning? Why the LGBT are putting up with this I don’t know. It looks like the lesbians and Transsexuals are fighting back. Transvestites/’straight queers’ who have appropriated a minority culture have a nerve to call LGBT transphobic.
I want to make this clear if you are wear womens clothes and have NO intention to transition. You are a TRANSVESTITE and should not use ‘transphobia’ which is for people who NEED to transition i.e. transsexuals. Use transvestitephobia and watch everybody laugh at you.
Really? I ask you to substantiate your truth claim and this is all you’ve got? It’s simple. You claimed that I owe a debt of gratitude to H-BSers who gave me my trans rights. Either you lied about the value of H-BSers or you told the truth. If you told the truth, you’ll be about to name that tangible things any H-BSer ever did that resulted in the expansion of trans rights.
Where’s the list? Why are you deflecting? Name that tangible things any H-BSer ever did that resulted in the expansion of trans rights.
Since you’re refusing to answer with anything more than hyperbole, whether or not you’re willing to admit it, I think you’ve gotten the message. People like you are arm-chair pseudo-activists hiding behind a keyboard afraid to do anything meaningful for anyone. You troll the comment sections of blogs to make up for the fact that history won’t record a single positive thing any H-BSer did which resulted in the expansion of trans rights. In other words, you lied… which is why I call your bunch H-BSers.
Cristan you’re not a Transsexual are you I can tell by the way you are avoiding the comments. You are a transvestite because you have no intention to transition. A straight white transvestite MAAB ……probably calling yourself a ‘lesbian transgenderunicornsnowflake’. If my guess above is correct then you should keep out of Transsexual rights, if you are a ‘lesbian’ i.e. straight MAAB, you should keep out of LGBT as a whole. You should never use transphobia because that is for transsexuals. Who are YOU to comment on Transsexual equality rights and judge how much HBers ‘have done’? The HBers as your article points out CANNOT STAND YOU!!!!!!! They wish you would go away and stop ruining everything for them! You should be no where near feminism either. It’s all sooo clear why none of you understand the basics of equality and why you sound like mens rights activists. The Transsexuals who have had SRS/or pass clearly DO have an intelligent voice in these matters, which is no surprise if they live full time passing as a woman and ACTUALLY SUFFER FROM MISOGYNY. The real transphobes are not the radfems who are supporting the Transsexuals in their ‘klan’ mentality but ignorant transvestites like you.
This is the argument as you’ve constructed it:
Fact Claim:
H-BSers won the trans rights we all enjoy.
Evidence Supporting Fact Claim:
A H-BSer thinks Cristan is a transvestite.
Conclusion:
Cristan cannot understand the numerous rights H-BSers have won for trans folks because Cristan is a misogynist.
Classic H-BSer logic.
Cristan you are transvestite. Nobody cares about Transvestites. Transphobia is a word for transsexuals NOt transvestites. YOU ARE transphobic. Say ‘HBers’ all you like to cover your insults to them. They are Transsexuals. YOU are NOT. YOU are Transphobic. The Radfems supporting the Transsexuals are mainly lesbian. They SUPPORT Transsexuals. What we are seeing here is the real LGBT (T for Transsexuals like it always meant) standing up against the influx of STRAIGHT TRANSVESTITE MAAB like yourself. Good Luck to them. The LGBT are having their equality fight appropriated by straight white transvestite MAAB and FAAB and they have obviously had enough! You should not even be discussing transsexual issues as a spokesperson if you are not transsexual. You should stick to transvestite issues which, by the way NOBODY cares if you, as a transvestite wants to use the ladies. They care if TRANSSEXUALS do though. That right there should answer your question about what transsexuals and the LGBT as a whole has ‘done’. There is no transvestite ‘struggle’ which is why you have appropriated (disgustingly) someone elses!
You bring a smirk to my face each time I see one of your posts.
If I had a nickel for each time a H-BSer called me a man/transvestite/misogynist when they failed to support their fact assertions…
I know it’s funny isn’t it appropriating a minorities struggle! You say HBer and admit you are not one. Hbers are Transsexuals. I don’t care what postmodernist nonsense name all you transvestites have given yourselves. You’re appropriation of a minority struggle is disgusting. No-one is transphobic to you because you are not a transsexual. YOU HAVE NO STRUGGLE for equality. Nobody cares if a MAAB transvestite wants to use the womens. You should be ashamed of yourself. I’m not a HBer so you didn’t get a nickel this time did you? Translated what you mean is: I am always getting called out by Transsexuals for NOT being a transsexual and appropriating their equality struggle. They know I’m actually a transvestite. A transphobic transvestite.
*your appropriation (bangs head against wall)
watching you push your logically malformed assertions is really funny (to me).
[ They know I'm actually a transvestite. A transphobic transvestite.]
ヘ（´ｏ｀）ヘ
So, in other words you can’t name a single tangible thing any H-BSer ever did that resulted in the expansion of trans rights.
I rest my case.
Honey, the EEOC didn’t “pass protections” for trans people. The EEOC doesn’t pass anything. It issued a guidance. It is not binding. It doesn’t give anyone any rights that didn’t already exist under the Civil Rights Act. If and when a trans suit gets to court, the court will give no weight to the guidance. I expect that the courts will hold that the Civil Rights Act does not cover “transgender.”
For someone who spends all her time talking about trans stuff, you sure don’t understand much beyond slogans. Educate yourself.
*facepalm*
If you want to pretend that trans folks had access to the same set of Title VII protections under the EEOC, then you’re free to believe that myth. As of now, Title VII protects trans folk; 10 years ago, that wasn’t the case.
Please tell me the last time you sat down with an EEOC commissioner to discuss this exact issue. When was the last time you even discussed this issue with an EEOC regional director? How many Title VII cases have you brought to the EEOC?
Cuz yeah, anonymous sock account, I’ve done all these things.
Then it is all the more shocking that you are so ignorant of the EEOC guidance. The EEOC doesn’t determine what Title VII protects. It is an agency, not a court. The federal courts determine what the statute covers. If the EEOC thinks that Title VII covers transgender, it can only commence a case against an employer and ask a court to agree with it; it has no power to render a decision on its own. And BTW, it rarely brings cases.
It really is shocking that you know so little about this area of the law, given how much time you spend writing about it. Why does Transadvocate allow you to post here? Surely there are trans lawyers who could provide real knowledge to Transadvocate readers.
You’re the only one who’s making the claim that the EEOC is a court. I said that the EEOC ruled that trans folk are covered under Title VII. Here’s the ruling:
http://www.washingtonblade.com/content/files/2012/04/90910497-EEOC-Ruling.pdf
Debunk my claim that you’re making a strawman argument by posting into a reply wherein I state that the EEOC is a court.
The EEOC must review and determines if a Title VII civil rights violation has taken place. This must take place before a valid action proceed.
When the EEOC took the step to rule that discrimination based upon trans status = a Title VII civil right violation, they absolutely “passed Title VII protections for trans folk.” Unless you can construct a reasoned argument rationally concluding that my usage of “passed” means something other than approved, you’re full of shit. In case you need a dictionary to figure out what “pass” means, here you go:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pass
[It really is shocking that you know so little about this area of the law, given how much time you spend writing about it. Why does Transadvocate allow you to post here? ]
And it’s not at all shocking to me that someone like you is reduced to merely trolling the comment sections of a trans blog with transparent strawman arguments.
@Kathy grow up will you. These are serious issues.
Thank you for confirming that you have no examples of nondiscrimination laws you were in any way instrumental in passing to cite in support of your statements claiming expertise in this area.
Given your claims of vast experience – it must be a great dissappointment to have decades of failure as your legacy. But – it is a brave first step towards a more mature view of your place in the history of civil rights struggles.
Brava!
I have no idea what you are talking about as I don’t read your posts anymore (true sorry!) I just see your name and leave you a comment to grow up as you cause more harm than good to the transequality movement. Do grow up and get off the internet until you achieve some maturity in these matters.
Whatever. In the absence of making a cogent evidence-based argument you’re simply going to appeal to your age as if age makes you right. You have no real argument to make; you’ve merely a lot of unsupported opinions about how trans people should be segregated from cis people.
I reserve the be rude to the people who bashed and bloodied my community, who took our healthcare away, who hunted and outed us, who lobbied TWO presidents to force us to undergo reparative therapy and worked to erase us from queer history. The suffering and misery they’ve visited upon the trans community is without parallel.
Additionally, I reserve the right to be fucking selfish about my 14th amendment guarantees. No, the discomfort YOUR bigoted views cause YOU don’t trump my 14th amendment guarantees.
It’s disgusting to me that you’ve chosen to assume a faux rhetorical posture of the maturity and authority of age because you’re doing it in service to bigotry. There’s no middle of the road when you’re talking about fucking with my 14th amendment guarantees. Shame on you. If you are older than most of us you should know better.
[Would black people be ok with white power people at their conferences (seen as you've made a 'klan' analogy)]
That’s a mischaracterization and a fallacious comparison on par with saying that discrimination against discrimination is discrimination. Trans folk are not analogous to a hate group in that trans folk are not seeking to crush the 14th amendment guarantees of RadFems. RadFems, on the other hand, are attempting to do exactly that.
Conflating trans folk’s demand to have equal access to their 14th amendment guarantees with the demands MRAs make might, to the bias ear, sound similar in that both are making demands, but to those who are willing to actually pay attention to what trans folk are saying, MRA and trans folk are saying completely different things. MRAs are ignorantly saying that feminism is wrong because feminists are attempting to become a privileged class. Trans folk are saying that RadFems are wrong when they attempt to remove 14th amendment guarantees for trans folk. Those two positions are completely different. Misrepresenting the history of the real and actual blood-stained oppression of the trans community by RadFems in order to make a fallacious point is pathetic and, for me, offensively disrespectful to the victims of RadFeminism.
Educate yourself before making the types of claims you’ve made. Learn who Filisa Vistima was and how she died. Learn who it was who authored most of the anti-trans memes that still haunt the trans community to this day. Learn the way in which RadFems teamed up with right-wingers to ensure trans people would not have access to medical care (and then talk to any of the 1000s of trans folk who suffered because of it). Read about the way RadFems contributed to the bashing of trans folk who started the Stonewall Riot. Learn how RadFems threatened to beat trans folk if they were allowed to speak at the first LGBT march on Washington. Learn how RadFems hunted trans folk and systematically outed them to their employers so they would be fired.
In what way has the trans population inflicted even a 10th of the suffering RadFems have visited upon the trans population over the past 40 years? What trans person wrote position papers for presidential administrations suggesting that RadFems undergo conversion therapy? I ask because RadFems have done exactly that.
Your argument is malformed, you’re historically ignorant which makes you blind to context and your hubris has only made you loud.Trans folk funded the first meeting of ‘homophile organizations’ – literally the first national queer summit in 1968. We funded and kept the Mattachine Society afloat. We funded the One organization. We started the riots at Stonewall (1969), Cooper’s (1958/9), the action at Dewey’s (1965) and the riot at Compton’s (1966). Pretending that trans folk are anything less than equal partners in the struggle for equality is a bigoted a-historical position.
Are you LGBT types trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes again like you did with that whole Transsexual seperatist thing? You all got scared silly when you realized that there are people that really want to seperate. I laughed my butt off at how quickly you and the supposedly trans-seperatist entered into an autogynephillic kiss and make-up lovefest. Cathy from my understanding of “Womyn born womyn” many of you are into S&M and B&D. Do you guys really have to so publically practice your humiliation techniques on the Autogynephiles? Seriously this is messed up Lesbians masterbating over making Autogynephiles masterbate. All I can say is ewe such drama queens
I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. I’m clear that you’re trying to smugly PWN someone, but your delivery is kinda muddled. Would you please rephrase your post?
What I’m saying is I think your all a bunch of frauds that love each other and are just creating drama because you enjoy hurting others.
Oh, gotcha. Basically you believe that none of this matters to anyone of consequence and that it’s just a big metaphorical circle jerk that doesn’t affect the lives of real people. Because (you assert) it’s meaningless, you’ve spent your time perusing the post and have chosen to invest your attention in ensuring that we meaningless people with our meaningless issues know that we’re meaningless… unlike yourself. Correct?
Your assiduity for that which you find irrelevant is remarkable.
No I’ve been around a while and have been taking notes on what’s been going on. I also know that there is a large amount of Womyn born Womyn involved with the Transgender movement and have personally known one that ran a center and controlled the Transgender group. Then there is also the link between certain supposed Transsexual seperatist leaders that were friends with Cathy Brennan who now all of a sudden seem to be your love interest. Yep its one big circle jerk and what’s sad is your all to stupid to see just how obvious your shannigans are. Some of us actually take things seriously and are trying to make life better. You might want to try that
instead of showing your an asshole who could afford to buy a vagina.
As I said, your assiduity for that which you find irrelevant is remarkable.
The fact you used we instead of distancing yourself from them speaks volumes. “Because (you assert) it’s meaningless, you’ve spent your time perusing the post and have chosen to invest your attention in ensuring that we meaningless people with our meaningless issues know that we’re meaningless… unlike yourself.”
[...] TransAdvocate: It’s happened. The H-BSers, the RadPhlems and the people who DEFENDED Prop 8 have untied as one [...]
Also, I am happy to be called a bigot against misogynists like you and your “sisters.” It’s revolting to see a white person deploy our country’s history of racism to advance the argument that all women (black, white, brown) must submit to people like Colleen Francis in sex-segregated spaces. But given that “your community” appropriates “all teh things,” I suppose I am not surprised.
In what way does gender equality nullify laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance?
And Cathy Brennan hasn’t also used race related struggles to help illustrate her feminist points?
But – how does she know you’re telling the truth when you say you’ve had surgery? One is acceptable to her based upon no evidence – it’s not as if she’s going to see if you’re lieing unless she’s doing something creepy and illegal.
And if she needs to peep on you – how can she believe woman who say they don’t have a trans history – who knows if they’re lieing?
Ah – I see what she’s up to. Clever – but creepy. Better for no one to enter the rest room while she’s inside. For modesty’s sake.
IMHO, their perverse attention to the genital configuration of the people around them is seemingly unknown outside the porn industry. Really… who in real life spends this much time thinking about, talking about, writing about and even drawing (then photographing and tweeting) other people’s junk? Cathy runs entire blogs chronicling the collective genitalia of trans folk.That behavior is kinda gross.
Women doesn’t want to pretend dicks are female. The act of being a man in woman’s space is the intrusion – Men don’t need to be waving their dick around to make it an intrusion. Trans women are male-bodied unless or until they get medical intervention (like you did, right?). If you are male-bodied, you have no business in sex-segregated space.
Deal with that.
Obvious troll is obvious. Answer the question. I’ve asked you this question for months and you’ve still not provided a rational answer:
In what way does gender equality nullify laws prohibiting rape, assault, stalking and/or public indecency/disturbance?
Cathy I just looked you up on google and I have to say you are very very hateful towards the trans community. Don’t confuse your love of ciswomen for hate of transwomen. Love/Hate don’t mix. I don’t think you are helping to resolve the matter at all. You clearly don’t want a resolution. I however, do want one. I think trans & cis women need to talk (openly) and try and understand each other.