Having checked out your profile, Marti, it would seem your sexual orientation is not “flexible”; you state clearly in several places you are gay. And though you don’t mention hetero females, you do say you are not interested in straight males other than as a friend. And, as you say above, you give several links that would lead almost anyone but the most naive to believe that you are trans as well…the link to Transadvocate alone, should one follow it, would tell them that. In short, I would say you are very honest in your profile.

However, above, you say in response to nexy: “I don’t want people seeing me as trans first… I want them to see ME as a person.”

If that is what you truly want I would say the approach in your profile, i.e., making it clear and up front that you are both gay and trans is a bit self defeating.

As a general comment, Marti, and not directed at you, I do not understand those who feel an immediate need to reveal they are transsexual to someone they anticipate dating. I feel one is absolutely insane to go out on a date with any man before making absolutely sure that person knows their status if they are preop. On the other hand, I don’t see any need whatsoever in revealing one’s post op status before dating a man…ever…unless or until the relationship gets serious. Like Marti, I want men who are attracted to me to be so because I am female – a female they are attracted to – FIRST; if and when things get serious, either me him, or him me…then I cross the gender bridge.

Susan, there are many things we disagree with, but I think we’re on the same page here. For me it’s just a matter of degrees,really.

Honestly, I put my creative side out and am wide open about the fantastic person that I am. I want people to see that first, before they tattoo me with trans. Not because I’m ashamed of it, but because it’s not the totality of who I am.

I know it’s cliché, but I really am attracted to personalities. I’m attracted to both men and women physically, but I’ve never had the kind of emotional intimacy with a man that I’ve had with women. Not saying that I won’t ever, and that’s why I say I’m flexible.

i’m curious as to why saying up front that one is trans, tattoos them as trans as the totality of who they are, while saying up front that one is gay, doesn’t tattoo them as gay as the totality of who they are. or does it, and being gay is somehow “better”?

there’s no one aspect of me that amounts to the totality of who i am, but i’ve used on line profiles to build a picture of me, and being trans is a part of that. just like being jewish, or tall, or someone who enjoys romantic walks through the park.

Well, I’d like to say there’s much more stigma and a “Why bother?” attitude towards trans not presented towards gays, especially if you’re gay yourself in the first place, that would be shooting yourself in the foot.

I mean, if I was lesbian, would that scare off lesbian prospects? But if I put up that I’m trans it scares both straight and gay prospects. I have a profile on OkCupid too. I don’t mention anywhere about transition. I’ll tell when someone messages me, someone is interested, or I feel I trust the person enough. Being trans (or intersex, can’t be sure, that’s why I mention both) is something I do (transition), and while my past might inform some of my present, it isn’t much of *who* I am, rather than a category.

Saying I’m trans won’t tell you one bit about me, except maybe suggest I take/have taken medications in some form and have or intend to have surgery someday (in most people’s minds they associate trans and surgery). It might say I face potential discrimination, too. But I face discrimination for being poor too, and I don’t advertise it.

For many folks, when they learn you are trans, they pigeonhole you into a box that’s built up of all the trans-stuff they’ve ever experienced.

And, because its out of the ordinary, it becomes the thing that defines you in their minds. Tends to happen that way. Einstein was defined by his achievements. So are transfolk.

Now, that’s their problem, and that’s in part what a lot of us are working to change, and all that.

But in the end, that’s how one becomes tattooed as trans.

Whether that’s good, bad, or indifferent depends on the person and their understanding (or lack thereof) of what it means to be trans, as based on their experience.

But it does and most likely will happen. Some folks are ok with that, some aren’t, and some just plain don’t give a hoot.

hth

Dyss

oh, and no, Marti, you aren’t a liar.

At least, not about this.

I don’t know enough about the rest of your life and existence to make it an unqualified statement, lol

yes, but would any self-respecting trans person actually want to be in a relationship with someone who would “pigeonhole you into a box that’s built up of all the trans-stuff they’ve ever experienced”?

perhaps because i’ve always been upfront about my trans-ness, and by doing so filtered out all the a$$holes who would pigeonhole me, i missed out on all that fun. funny, i just never thought it a good idea to date bigots.

Not the bigots, but people who bought into misinformation, mainly because the misinformation is larger than the information. Those people who have nothing against you if it can be explained, but cringed last week hearing about transgender or transsexual.

I have to admit that despite presently living in an unfriendly locale (small local area) that most people are not bigots, although they may have some prejudices that stem from misinformation.

I’m not real keen on dating bigots either, and typically encountering one tends to mean a quick exit, and not always on my part.

And those are the folks I was referring to. People who would be fine if they could get the information that we are about being ourselves.

We all pigeonhole people, though. Some of us are really good at confining that pigeon holing to just the one person, and some of us aren’t. It depends on the way we structure the world and our experience of it inside ourselves.

Several of the girls here in the House have SO’s who get it, and don’t give a damn. But some of those same people thought considerably different once. ITs a matter of getting to know people.

Most of our daily life is not going to involve getting to know someone. ITs not going to involve that much exchange.

That’s why I tend to favor some stores over others — it allows me to become a little better known, and to get to know the people in them better.

That’s what allows one to step out of a box and be better known.

Online dating services create a situation where we have to define our own box — much like Marti did — as if you don’t, you tend to not get very much interest.

That’s basically how I see it, personally, and why when some folks (those bigots) try to insult me, its usually not very effective.

Usually…

I have to admit that despite presently living in an unfriendly locale (small local area) that most people are not bigots, although they may have some prejudices that stem from misinformation.

I’m not real keen on dating bigots either, and typically encountering one tends to mean a quick exit, and not always on my part.

And those are the folks I was referring to. People who would be fine if they could get the information that we are about being ourselves.

We all pigeonhole people, though. Some of us are really good at confining that pigeon holing to just the one person, and some of us aren’t. It depends on the way we structure the world and our experience of it inside ourselves.

Several of the girls here in the House have SO’s who get it, and don’t give a damn. But some of those same people thought considerably different once. ITs a matter of getting to know people.

Most of our daily life is not going to involve getting to know someone. ITs not going to involve that much exchange.

That’s why I tend to favor some stores over others — it allows me to become a little better known, and to get to know the people in them better.

That’s what allows one to step out of a box and be better known.

Online dating services create a situation where we have to define our own box — much like Marti did — as if you don’t, you tend to not get very much interest.

That’s basically how I see it, personally, and why when some folks (those bigots) try to insult me, its usually not very effective.

Usually…

Its a difficult situation. I totally see where you’re coming from. I know it doesn’t seem like a good idea mentioning that you are a transsexual, but i think it is important to be honest and open. Even if it seems like you are attracting the wrong crowd, eventually you will attract the kind of person you want to – a person who is willing to accept you for you.

@Kristina:

Well, I don’t think I’m being dishonest. I want someone that’s going to dig past looking at a pic, and follow my links If they don’t or can’t do that, they aren’t very interested in me.

Marty, I don’t think you are being a liar. Even if you didn’t have the links to various trans-related websites, you still wouldn’t be a liar.

I’m of the mindset that the world is filled with people who can become quite accepting of trans folk if they actually get to know people who are transgender. Because so few people are familiar with us, one has to find someway to overcome people’s initial prejudices—prejudices that are based on a dearth of information and experience.

So, as a general rule of thumb, I let people get to know me as a person first. If I sense that they are a kind, understanding person, I then come out to them. I’ve found that once a person gets to know me and senses that I’m a kind, caring person, my being transgender matters little to them.

I also suspect that this tends to short-circuit people’s tendency to see me as an “ex-man pretending to be a woman.” Once people have it well seated in their minds that I’m a woman, it becomes harder to revise those perceptions than if I immediately come out as transgender.

Since this process takes time, it’s kind of difficult to implement in a situation where one is simply dating different people, actively looking for a partner. I tend to seek out friendship, above and beyond anything else. I don’t actively seek out romantic partners. If, somewhere down the road, romantic intimacy becomes possible, that’s wonderful. If the relationship never reaches that level, then fine. Friendship is always welcome. This process feels pretty natural to me, but everyone is different…

Kristina,

please forgive me.

THe honest and open argument is predicated on caring more about what another person thinks or feels or believes than what we think and feel and believe.

The honest and open argument is a way of saying that we “aren’t really” women, or men. We are something other. ANd it is the perception of others that matters more than our personal perception.

For some people, that’s fine. FOr me, that’s tantamount to my denying I’m a person who has taken the time and spent the money and done the hard work of transitioning from male to female.

I take that seriously. I am not male anymore. For every argument using medicine that I’ve ever heard saying I am, I’ve got one saying I’m not.

I can *entertain* the thought that I’m not female. I can argue that I am, as well, effectively.

But, in the end, the fact that I’m living as a female, treated as a female, socialized as a female, subject to female privilege, subject to misogyny and all manner of things that are pretty much considered to be women’s stuff, I suspect that the overwhelming evidence will indicate that I am female.

So, to me, rationally, irrationally, emotively, and spiritually, being open and honest means that I present myself as a woman and a female.

Surgery is not special. ITs a procedure. DOzens (if not hundreds) of the same one’s are done every day.

I don’t talk about my tonsilectomy. Or my hand surgery after I cut the tip of my finger off.

When it comes to getting in bed with a man, well, that’s going to depend on the man.

Some men I will tell, some I won’t. Depends on how *I* feel at that moment, about them, about me, and about us.

Does that potentially set me up to land in a brief news report?

Possibly. But it doesn’t mean that I am at fault. It just means that individual was pretty screwed up.

I generally avoid people who are really screwed up. so its not come up yet.

Subtext and following the logic of saying open and honest, outside of emotional resonance involved, led me to realize that denying who I am and placing the blame on victims are not good ideas.

Sorry to have picked on you — its just that’s a trigger for me.

Kristina,

please forgive me.

THe honest and open argument is predicated on caring more about what another person thinks or feels or believes than what we think and feel and believe.

The honest and open argument is a way of saying that we “aren’t really” women, or men. We are something other. ANd it is the perception of others that matters more than our personal perception.

For some people, that’s fine. FOr me, that’s tantamount to my denying I’m a person who has taken the time and spent the money and done the hard work of transitioning from male to female.

I take that seriously. I am not male anymore. For every argument using medicine that I’ve ever heard saying I am, I’ve got one saying I’m not.

I can *entertain* the thought that I’m not female. I can argue that I am, as well, effectively.

But, in the end, the fact that I’m living as a female, treated as a female, socialized as a female, subject to female privilege, subject to misogyny and all manner of things that are pretty much considered to be women’s stuff, I suspect that the overwhelming evidence will indicate that I am female.

So, to me, rationally, irrationally, emotively, and spiritually, being open and honest means that I present myself as a woman and a female.

Surgery is not special. ITs a procedure. DOzens (if not hundreds) of the same one’s are done every day.

I don’t talk about my tonsilectomy. Or my hand surgery after I cut the tip of my finger off.

When it comes to getting in bed with a man, well, that’s going to depend on the man.

Some men I will tell, some I won’t. Depends on how *I* feel at that moment, about them, about me, and about us.

Does that potentially set me up to land in a brief news report?

Possibly. But it doesn’t mean that I am at fault. It just means that individual was pretty screwed up.

I generally avoid people who are really screwed up. so its not come up yet.

Subtext and following the logic of saying open and honest, outside of emotional resonance involved, led me to realize that denying who I am and placing the blame on victims are not good ideas.

Sorry to have picked on you — its just that’s a trigger for me.

I do not find anything dishonest in how you have represented yourself. I
do question the effectiveness of meeting partners online, but that’s not the story here. In any case, honesty with regards to partners is vital to a stable and permanent relationship. I was completely open about my transgender nature when I began dating my wife, and our honesty with each other about all matters of life is the center we live by. However, finding that special honest someone isn’t easy. I wish each of you the same good luck I had.

OK new to this blog but NOT new to OKCupid. I’ve been around the block a few times, mostly as a straight male sadly, but despite being single still I’ve had a lot of good successes on there compared to anywhere else as far as internet dating. I’ve met some great people–the problem is honestly me, as with transition and other things in life it’s hard to hold on to someone at this point.

Anyway, I heard on some TV show that there are people that will help you do an online profile and charge lots of money for it. I should really do that, ha. In the meanwhile tho I’m gonna wikiedit your profile a bit (for free!) since I think the issue is less the trans stuff but you come off kind of negatively. Assuming you were in my area/age range, I’d be interested in you if I came across you at random on OKC but I’d be a bit tepid since you state things so negatively, and put negative disclaimers before positive “things you’re looking for”. I’m going to suggest some fixes to that… please don’t knee-jerk and be like “BUT STRAIGHT MEN WON’T PAY ATTENTION AND WILL MESSAGE ME IN DROVES AND THEN THE APOCOLYPSE!! AAA!” Sorry hon, straight horny guys who don’t read profiles will message you anyway, just don’t reply and don’t waste energy being upset. You shouldn’t be scaring off potential GOOD matches to try to prevent what should just be a minor annoyance, at most.

Whew! Wikiedit done. I didn’t add or say anything about the trans stuff, nor did I comment here about them, so real quick before I run out the door I don’t think it’s necessary to say you’re trans in your profile, but you need to be honest. Unfortunately on my girl profile that means I meet some interesting and fun girls who mysteriously stop messaging me after I come out to them, but oh well. I meet rad people who don’t care, too, and part of the problem is that I’m fairly pre-everything and as a lesbian myself I’m not sure I’d date me at this point, either. I just do it to meet people and practice being a girl a bit so the rejection isn’t an issue and I learn from it.

Being open about it has its own issues that you point out, but really either method is acceptable as long as you’re ultimately honest with the person before things get too emotional and involved. It just depends on how you want to interact with people.

No, you are not a liar. You tell it like it is. Your right in so many ways. Someone should never decide to want to be in a relationship with someone because of what they are. It should be how they are inside that should count more than anything. Not what you appear to be. Appearance is not everything. It’s the person at heart. No one person should not have to disclose if they are male or female to talk to a person. It just should not matter. If you hit it off with someone just by talking then the rest should not matter. People are real beautiful at heart if you take the time to get to know them inside their soul. No, one should be judged by appearance or how they live their lives. It’s the soul you fall in love with.

Oh, I believe there’s lots of things you could put in your profile, that wouldn’t be “keywords,” if you wanted to let people know on your main page; “I have/used to have a male body,” “I used to be male,” “Where most girls have an innie, I have an outie.” Really, there are lots of ways of saying it without using “trans” or “mtf” or words like that.

Question, though: does someone being interested in your body, the way it is, automatically make them a “fetishist”?